About dragging and stuff.



  • Not complaining. Not crying. Just want to point out a few things that bug me for the sake of the game and its future. .

    This are a few things.

    -You can not tell anymore if they are 1337 dragqueens or speed hackers or software is not running propper.

    here is why.

    -I was about to go in a fight. Guy swings, I duck and lead a stab. My stab was already deap in him,
    yet he managed to overhead me with the speed of light. No flinch, no hit reg. of my stab. We were facehugging and my stab was 100% on its way.
    I should have hit him and flinched him at least. Yet he managed to do a uber fast OH with no result on him. I die. Funny how people say this isn’t a exploit at all.

    -Guy stabs with his 2h. I move a side. Something I have mastered after 1000hours. I have a great sense of weapons and ranges.
    My foot work is solid. However, if you againts such 1337 dragger something funny happens all the time. They combo into a stab and you manage to step away from that
    to do counter attack, but guy suddenly goes 360 no scope and manage to cut off your head with his last 0,10% of his stab movement. Basically turning a stab into a swing.

    When I play as archer it happens often that vanguards sneaks behind me. With the great footsteps sound Chiv got it happens also very often you only hear “WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA”
    Well, I learnt to duck instand when I hear that sound. Still it is tricky, but it saves lifes once a while. However, if you up against a 1337 dragger and he jumps over you he still
    managing to do a 360 and cut your head off.

    Some guys combo so fast with 2 handers. You get hit by first combo. Only to get hit again instand by second swing. Makes you wonder.

    So therefor I can conclude only one thing. This mechanic is not good at all.
    All it does is correcting your mistakes. Guy outsmarts you. Well, just drag your mouse like a madman and you can correct your mistake.
    Game is far from realistic, but this just makes it even worse.

    We, the generation that bought this game from the start had time to get used to it. The AOC community wasnt that big, so we had time to master it and get used to the
    rare advanced players. If you now buy this game you will join a massive poul of draggers. I’m pretty sure this will kill the fun a lot of those newbies. Not understanding what just happened. Too many parry not connecting.
    See people kill them while in their screen that guy was still winding up. And the points I put on above that happen too often. A new person only can think that this game is broken, while everybody is telling it is part of the game.
    A bit contradictionary isn’t it?

    yes, i’m guilthy as well. When I OH my finger goes automatic to the crouch button. when I push swing I move my mouse right away. But I’m not defending it as part of the game. it maybe is part of the game, but I rather see it as a flaw. What is
    the use of having a parry button if some guys are impossible to parry. What is the use of telling stab is the fasted movement in the tutorial while in fact it doesn’t mean sh*t.

    Few more things that bug me. MAA that dodges back and forward with OH is unblockable. Gamebreaking exploit. Some MAA’s only do this sh*t like there is nothing else to do. Quite annoying.

    Then the stun. I do not understand why this is put in the game. I used to love those intense fights that went on till one made a mistake or you got backstabbed by another enemy or friendly.
    So technically if you put 2 knights that are equal in skill level againt eachother. Well, basically the first one to parry will lose, cause he will be out of stamina first and will be stunned and give away a free hit.
    A good alternitive would be to lose the abilty to swing, but still can parry or walk. Makes more sense. If I lift stuff that is heavy. yes, I get tired and at some point I can’t lift anymore, but yet I still can walk and if danger moves in I still have working brains with responsiveness.

    My 2 cents on the issue. Thank you



  • oh the bubble reductions made hits hit and misses miss, you’ll get used to it. As for drags, thanks to the bubble you can matrix quite a lot better so attacks will hit later than they did before, not by a lot, but they will as you’re further away from them, So you can block even later which also makes it easier to read feints.
    Without drags the skill level would be more than halved, the real time swings makes the game what it is, imagine not being able to move teh camera at all while performing an attack, that’d suck and everyone would lmb. Moving your mouse either left or right is dragging, just saying.

    The combo “problem” isn’t a problem anymore, the flinch is so short you can even flinch their combo now.

    MAA dodge is easy to punish.

    Yes the 2 hour stun is annoying as heck and surely not needed.



  • The spear class relies heavily on dragging. Considering the fact it can’t combo or reverse overhead it is made viable in advanced fights through its great ability with drags. If the drag was removed it would turn a weapon class that could hit from anywhere, to the most linear and projected attack of the game. As for getting rid of dragging itself, that is kind of impossible. What dragging really is, is the movement of the mouse while attacking. Unless you want this games key feature, the ability do direct strikes while they are ongoing, to be removed drags will have to stay.



  • @DragQueen:

    Few more things that bug me. MAA that dodges back and forward with OH is unblockable. Gamebreaking exploit. Some MAA’s only do this sh*t like there is nothing else to do. Quite annoying.

    What. Just CFtP. I don’t think you have 1000 hours.

    Also, drags are easy to block. They’re a necessity in comp and with an adequate tutorial the noobs will be able to understand them more as well.



  • @Karasu:

    Also, drags are easy to block. They’re a necessity in comp and with an adequate tutorial the noobs will be able to understand them more as well.

    I think many more of these complaints would be addressed if the tutorial actually taught the real mechanics of the game like CFtP and dragging.



  • @Cerebral:

    I think many more of these complaints would be addressed if the tutorial actually taught the real mechanics of the game like CFtP and dragging.

    This^ would love that.



  • @Cerebral:

    I think many more of these complaints would be addressed if the tutorial actually taught the real mechanics of the game like CFtP and dragging.

    Basically what I was implying.



  • TBS tried to reduce the effectiveness of drags in Deadliest Warrior. Let’s just say even though the Longsword was swapped out for the SoW, dragging was a cinch. It didn’t matter that it reduced whatever damage by x amount, you couldn’t be beat if the opposition didn’t know how to react. What you are suggesting is that you make this a very…linear game where all one-handers will reing supreme.

    If you want to remove dragging, you need to increase the mouse turn cap. Think about it. The long windup and release time of a two-hander will make it painfully obvious when a stab/overhead happens and you can easily sidestep it in your sleep or turn the MaA dodge into an IWIN button. They can’t drag the weapon back into you if you half-step away. One handers on the other hand just kinda zip towards your target with your footwork doing most of the work instead of weapon manipulation. So not only did you just turn the two-handers’ overhead/stab attacks into a dangerous, niche tactic, you overbuffed one-handers because they will hardly suffer from a higher mousecap. The dane ax/morningstar will suck a little more because of their longer release times, but nobody uses them anyways.

    MaA who only rely on dodge are usually pub duel heroes or the 10-17 dude raging at his team in a TO game. You can either feint-chase or swap targets and then switch onto the MaA when he reengages. You’ll know you’re boned when the MaA outplays you from footwork alone.



  • @Cerebral:

    I think many more of these complaints would be addressed if the tutorial actually taught the real mechanics of the game like CFtP and dragging.

    Well, here’s the thing. The tutorial does teach what feinting is. You can do anything out of a feint…. what’s stopping the person thinking that you can parry out of a feint? It’s kind of an awkward thing you COULD point out, but imo it’d be more suited for a loading screen tip (which i don’t know why those were taken out).

    Like… " DID YOU KNOW? – You can parry or block after feinting to make it harder for enemies to catch you off guard. "

    Drags were also a part of those tips.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    Well, here’s the thing. The tutorial does teach what feinting is. You can do anything out of a feint…. what’s stopping the person thinking that you can parry out of a feint? It’s kind of an awkward thing you COULD point out, but imo it’d be more suited for a loading screen tip (which i don’t know why those were taken out).

    Like… " DID YOU KNOW? – You can parry or block after feinting to make it harder for enemies to catch you off guard. "

    Drags were also a part of those tips.

    Based on the amount of complaints I get from new players I would say that these implied lessons are not being learned. It is just best to be as overt as possible about these things.



  • It would also help to have enough community vids that deal with tutorials. I’m going to be working on some slick “quick tip” style tuts that will cover many ranges of stuff, in a tight and neat presentation. Even though the community is small and I’m sure not many people will see them, I still love doing tut vids, and I hope they will help newer and intermediate players to get hooked and be overall helpful.



  • I used feints a lot, people called me dishonourable. Today, I used a ‘point drag’ on someone, and he called me dishonourable. WTF, am I supposed to just slug it out, toe to toe?



  • @Toll:

    I used feints a lot, people called me dishonourable. Today, I used a ‘point drag’ on someone, and he called me dishonourable. WTF, am I supposed to just slug it out, toe to toe?

    nerf everything that kills me omg



  • OP, your first two points are good.
    I experience this a lot with stab from polearms and spears.

    And certainly since day dot i pushed for a tightening of the drag cap on stabs - for many reasons:
    -its not my fault if my opponent can’t stab in the right place so don’t punish me, TBS, for their error
    -you physically can not put sufficient force behind a stab if you’re turning the weapon away from your center of force. You would NEVER penetrate armour, and you’re just going to cause yourself to be off balance and fall over.
    -it reduces the skill ceiling.



  • @Toll:

    I used feints a lot, people called me dishonourable. Today, I used a ‘point drag’ on someone, and he called me dishonourable. WTF, am I supposed to just slug it out, toe to toe?

    Ha, today I got told off for not using my LMB button and for using kick finishers.



  • @gndo:

    Ha, today I got told off for not using my LMB button and for using kick finishers.

    I get this all the time using the brandi, 2 overheads and a kick will result in a kill on a knight, and an overhead to the head and a kick will kill a vangaurd.



  • Kick kills is the ultimate way to finish someone off.



  • -You can not tell anymore if they are 1337 dragqueens or speed hackers or software is not running propper.

    Stopped reading here. That is absolutely silly. They’re speedhacking if they hit you 3 times in the span of 1 second. Good god.



  • @giantyak:

    OP, your first two points are good.
    I experience this a lot with stab from polearms and spears.

    And certainly since day dot i pushed for a tightening of the drag cap on stabs - for many reasons:
    -its not my fault if my opponent can’t stab in the right place so don’t punish me, TBS, for their error
    -you physically can not put sufficient force behind a stab if you’re turning the weapon away from your center of force. You would NEVER penetrate armour, and you’re just going to cause yourself to be off balance and fall over.
    -it reduces the skill ceiling.

    Lets be perfectly clear. What the OP says is a 360 is actually a 180 and they are still hard to pull off without some foot work. Many times I will use a hit and run tactic then a delayed 180 overhead back at them. So how this works is that I will attack and instead of backing up or moving to the side I will blow past them and keep going. Wait a half a sec and start a 180 turn and overhead them.

    There is no 360 attack really, as the mouse drag cap speed prevents it. But you can come close. You actually move to the Left of them and turn away. As you do that you start you LMB swing and drag it into a 180. Because you almost have your back at them while your weapon is pulled back, you can hit them then and as you turn to the left for a 180 spin, you can hit them a second time at the end of that swing. This only really works with slow dragable weapons.

    OF course you can do that in the opposite direction using alt swing first.



  • @Retsnom:

    There is no 360 attack really, as the mouse drag cap speed prevents it.

    I actually think a bardiche can 360 the LMB. But even if it cannot the ability to create a strike that has the illusion of being 360 degrees is possible. With the brandi you can get a strike like this this pretty easily with basic footwork http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=236036941 . It does overlap in 2 small areas but does not really look like a 360 drag. However by using murderously hard footwork with the brandi you can get something that has a more realistic feel of a 360 swing/drag like this http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=228528165 . By abandoning the circular drag and moving yourself in a direction that will cause a massive overlap you can potentially argue that a 360 attack has been made.


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