Archers- please think before you shoot



  • At a certian point, most melee fighters learn that LMB mashing through teammates kills them and so they stop doing it. I get the feeling that many players have a desire not to TK, even before respawn time penalties were introduced.

    And then there’s archers. No matter their rank, no matter their experience,archers seem to never learn that when two combatants are dancing around eachother in circles, shooting at one of them make them just as likely to hit the other. It sounds like something that should be glaringly obvious but rank 2 or rank 55, they do it all the same, with the same results. I just cannot understand why at some point, the majority of players learn to stop LMB spamming in a clusterfuck, but archers never stop shooting at 1v1 fights.

    So there must be someone reading this post who does it. I know stealing a kill sounds worth the risk of having a few seconds added to your next respawn. But please just don’t do it. If you want to help your teammate in a fight, spamming missiles in his direction while he’s running around is not the way to do it. Draw your melee weapon, run in and hit the bad guy with it. Thank you.



  • Why Archers tend to do this: If you hit the ally you only deal 50% damage and nothing else but if you hit the enemy you will deal 100% damage and flinch him. Add to this that your shots are 100% accurate and you are aiming for the enemy (making it much more likely to hit him instead of your teammate) and its a net win to shoot into melee fights.

    Seriously thats stupid and one of the main reasons why 100% team damage, ally flinch and ranged spread (talking of CS assault rifle spread not video game shotgun spread) are good things in my opinion.

    But right now there are enough reasons to take the risk - if you run into melee you are the one who is at risk of being hit (Archer weapons are short) and it might just get you killed (Archer armor is weak). In the end “your life” > “your mates life” > “your enemies life”.



  • @Evil:

    Why Archers tend to do this: If you hit the ally you only deal 50% damage and nothing else but if you hit the enemy you will deal 100% damage and flinch him.

    Admittedly flinch can be helpful but it can just as easily be a hindrance. I have had situations where I was fighting someone, they started an attack, I blocked, and an archer flinched him, canceling his strike and allowing him to attack again and hit me before I could recover and block it. He got a free hit he otherwise wouldn’t have.

    Plus it is annoying when your fighting someone about to kill them and then a team mate headshots you and you die.



  • I’ve always liked the archer limit and I think Evil Minion has always hated it so I’ll try to avoid starting such a discussion in this thread.

    @Evil:

    Why Archers tend to do this: If you hit the ally you only deal 50% damage and nothing else but if you hit the enemy you will deal 100% damage and flinch him.

    I’m fairly certain however, that 90% of the Archers in pub matches either don’t know this or just don’t give a damn. Especially the lower ranked, they just want to unlock stuff and get free kills from a safe distance.



  • @gndo:

    Admittedly flinch can be helpful but it can just as easily be a hindrance.

    I remember beeing flinched by an archer during a 1v1 and it having the result that the flinch basicly worked as a feint. It was marvelous, though kinda surprising that he fell for it. Aren’t you supposed to have a small delay before you can attack again after you’ve been flinched? Anyway: I had the archer on Skype and could thank him personally.



  • Archers - please consider suicide before you shoot



  • @Evil:

    100% team damage, ally flinch and ranged spread (talking of CS assault rifle spread not video game shotgun spread) are good things in my opinion.

    Please don’t tell me you’re talking about pubs.



  • @CorvusFerreum:

    I remember beeing flinched by an archer during a 1v1 and it having the result that the flinch basicly worked as a feint. It was marvelous, though kinda surprising that he fell for it. Aren’t you supposed to have a small delay before you can attack again after you’ve been flinched? Anyway: I had the archer on Skype and could thank him personally.

    Well I had only just blocked when he was flinched, so I had to wait for the block animation to finish, then recovery to finish also, before I could block again, but he got his attack in before that was physically possible.



  • @gndo:

    Well I had only just blocked when he was flinched, so I had to wait for the block animation to finish, then recovery to finish also, before I could block again, but he got his attack in before that was physically possible.

    A 0.8 second feint another words. What did he hit you with after? A lookdown overhead with a dagger?



  • As a frequent archer user, I personally try to avoid this as much as possible, but as an equally frequent Knight user, yeah, it kind of sucks. Statistically speaking, however, it’s actually a good move. If you throw arrows randomly into a crowd, you’re going to help your team over the long term, because your attacks deal more damage to the enemy team than yours. Add in the fact that you can aim and therefore hit the enemy more often, and it’s actually a smart way to play. In theory. Still incredibly annoying to run into.



  • If a team archer shoots into melee and hits me, I get the cranks and turn around right then and there, ignore the enemy and cut down the archer. Sometimes the enemy just watches, or helps kill the archer, then resume the fighting after laughing. Other times the enemy just hits me in the back.

    I hate archers that shoot into melee.



  • @Evil:

    Why Archers tend to do this: If you hit the ally you only deal 50% damage and nothing else but if you hit the enemy you will deal 100% damage and flinch him. Add to this that your shots are 100% accurate and you are aiming for the enemy (making it much more likely to hit him instead of your teammate) and its a net win to shoot into melee fights.

    Many servers like mine and some Official servers have 100% damage. Even 50% damage is no excuse to shoot in, do 50%-100% damage to your teammate only to flinch him and get him killed. That is exactly how it plays most of the time. The team archer either kills a teammate or helps to get him killed. Thus it is not a net win but a total failure.

    Seriously thats stupid and one of the main reasons why 100% team damage, ally flinch and ranged spread (talking of CS assault rifle spread not video game shotgun spread) are good things in my opinion.

    Totally agree. But then again there is still little punishment for arching a teammate. Maybe archer TKs should equal 20 sec respawn times. Lets see how they do then.

    But right now there are enough reasons to take the risk - if you run into melee you are the one who is at risk of being hit (Archer weapons are short) and it might just get you killed (Archer armor is weak). In the end “your life” > “your mates life” > “your enemies life”.

    The only truth in your last statement is “Archer armor is weak” Any decent archer can easily melee anyone without fear.



  • @Ready:

    most melee fighters learn that LMB mashing through teammates kills them and so they stop doing it.

    Nope…melee retards keep attacking with LMB or thru you and yeah… players always get much more teamhits from the melee instead of the archers.

    .think before you type.



  • I get teamkilled by melee more than archers TBH. Though that might be slightly skewed as I play archer and in melee as archer with a group isn’t the best for survivability.

    The real skill that some archers have is managing to teamkill someone when they have 5 enemies around them. You think “well I can’t possibly miss” and you fire. Then your team mate is dead and the other 5 are fine.



  • Definitely take far more melee team damage than ranged.



  • I rarely teamkill when playing archer, and I’ve rarely been teamkilled by an archer. It’s always some LMB spamming vanguard that kills me.



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  • @Flippy:

    I rarely teamkill when playing archer, and I’ve rarely been teamkilled by an archer. It’s always some LMB spamming vanguard that kills me.

    ^this.
    Although I’ve been hit by teammate archers in weird ass situations.



  • @lemonater47:

    A 0.8 second feint another words. What did he hit you with after? A lookdown overhead with a dagger?

    Well I’m not sure how long arrows flinch you for compared to parry time into recovery and back to parry.

    Even if the timings don’t add up you still see some weird shit in this game, maybe my block just didn’t work, sometimes you click and nothing happens, this happened to me twice yesterday.



  • @lemonater47:

    A 0.8 second feint another words. What did he hit you with after? A lookdown overhead with a dagger?

    Well, A billhook worked out fine in my case. And it wasn’t an instant handle hit, it was a regular old overhead from some distance IIRC.
    Though I was surprised that it worked it might even have been during his parry recovery. I’m not sure though. The flinch didn’t seem to last that long.

    That also brings up another question I had. Does flinch actually work during the .2s no parry window? Or at least is it supposed to (flinch during release isn’t supposed to work, but sometimes works anyway)?
    I assume it is, but it’s kinda hard to test precisely. Does anyone have an info on that? Just out of couriosity.


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