Vanguard Secondaries



  • Is there a known reason the Vanguard doesn’t have the one handed swords and maces available to the Knight and Man at Arms? If it was a case of them being too strong, then why allow the axes? And what makes them right for the other classes but wrong for them?

    So many questions.



  • I think diversity would be the main reason.
    Broadsword for example, would more than likely be preferred over the Saber for most cases. Why pick Cudgel when there’s the Flanged Mace. And so on and on.
    Chivalry is a reasonably balanced game but with classes like the Archer and the Vanguard I believe there’s a reason to assume some secondaries are simply weaker than others. Balance.

    Also I wouldn’t really care for Vanguards trying to dance with a Holy Water Sprinkler.



  • The entire point of the Vanguard class is big, powerful weapons. If you gave them access to the Broadsword or the Holy Water Sprinkler, it would make them a bit too versatile. The sword and axe tiers they have access to are useful for extremely tight areas or against certain MaA/archer users, but not for general purpose use. You don’t see Vans running around with them out all the time, which is the way it should be. I’m not so sure it would be the case if they could equip the same secondaries as Knights. You see Knights running around with secondaries all the time, which is fine, given that the emphasis on that class is the armour, but, considering that the Vanguard’s emphasis is on weapons, you want to see them with the two handers.

    As for why the axes aren’t as good for the Vanguards as they are for MaA: it’s because the MaA can manipulate space much, much better. The axes are pretty powerful, but without that dodge and foot speed, the Vanguard can’t overcome the short reach as effectively.



  • huehuehue… VG with brandistock and broadsword/HWS. Yes.



  • Considering that vanguards have the best selection of primary weapons the secondary weapons are practically cosmetic in their role.



  • I have also wondered this. It does seem quite strange that one secondary set is also secondaries for the lighter classes but the other is a maa primary set. Agreed that is would be unfair for vans to be overly versatile, but at the same time giving daggers to a heavy class seems a tad silly. IMO dane axe is hands-down the best van secondary, and the only one i carry. But im almost never in a situation where i need to use it because in tight spaces stab works fine and most van weapons have an effective stab. I guess i would switch to if i found myself in a tight space and had a low-hp teammate behind the enemy, but in 1300 hours i cant remember that happening, and i main vanguard.



  • @Cerebral:

    Considering that vanguards have the best selection of primary weapons the secondary weapons are practically cosmetic in their role.

    Please elaborate on what you mean by “best”.



  • @Ready:

    I have also wondered this. It does seem quite strange that one secondary set is also secondaries for the lighter classes but the other is a maa primary set. Agreed that is would be unfair for vans to be overly versatile, but at the same time giving daggers to a heavy class seems a tad silly. IMO dane axe is hands-down the best van secondary, and the only one i carry. But im almost never in a situation where i need to use it because in tight spaces stab works fine and most van weapons have an effective stab. I guess i would switch to if i found myself in a tight space and had a low-hp teammate behind the enemy, but in 1300 hours i cant remember that happening, and i main vanguard.

    I personally always run the hatchet or saber, both of them allow me to fight off stubborn MaA in TO, as I typically like to run big, slow weapons and smash people’s heads in if I play Vanguard. Not nearly as effective sometimes, but extremely satisfying.



  • @Ready:

    Please elaborate on what you mean by “best”.

    Of the highest quality, excellence, or standing, most advantageous, suitable, or desirable.



  • @Ready:

    Please elaborate on what you mean by “best”.

    Vanguards have exclusive access to the Brandistock, Zweihander, Greatsword, Billhook, Pole Hammer, and many other weapons. With primary weapons like those why would you need to use a secondary weapon?



  • @Cerebral:

    Vanguards have exclusive access to the Brandistock, Zweihander, Greatsword, Billhook, Pole Hammer, and many other weapons. With primary weapons like those why would you need to use a secondary weapon?

    Archer daggers.



  • @lemonater47:

    Archer daggers.

    If you let an archer get close enough to stab you, you have already kind of failed as a vanguard. That said if I am fighting an archer with his dagger out I cannot imagine how I would have the time to switch weapons in-between his attacks.



  • @Cerebral:

    If you let an archer get close enough to stab you, you have already kind of failed as a vanguard. That said if I am fighting an archer with his dagger out I cannot imagine how I would have the time to switch weapons in-between his attacks.

    Called switching earlier. If you know how to deal with drags as an archer with a dagger it isn’t that hard to get close. But with a dagger I always find it harder when they pull out an axe that has a stab as fast as your attacks but longer. Riposte feint to weapon swap also helps you swap weapons against a dagger.



  • Yep, i guarantee that with the archer class and dagger i will most certainly touch you as a VG :)
    The only saving grace for the VG is that he one shots archers with many of his primaries.



  • @giantyak:

    Yep, i guarantee that with the archer class and dagger i will most certainly touch you as a VG :)
    The only saving grace for the VG is that he one shots archers with many of his primaries.

    What I am saying its that with the great knock back and range that vanguard weapons get, it should be a main focus of a vanguard that he always has his opponents out of their striking range.



  • Yes, but if you hold ‘move forward’ down whilst you parry (using both buttons at the same time) for some reason it greatly reduces the knock back. I put this down to netcode issues, but if you do the above you hardly get knocked back at all compared to if you release ‘move forward’ and then parry. At this point VG knockback generally becomes negligible.



  • Vanguard war axe and hachet are pretty good for ganking someone from behind.



  • Waraxe is very nice for de-limbing people quick and efficiently. It’s fast but also has a bit of dragginess and a quick stab. Cudgel is pretty shit but it’s worth using just for the lols. I remember once upon a time when cudgel used to knock helmets off when you hit someone in the face with it. Good times.



  • I think Vanguard secondaries are fine. I use them in duels against shield Knights, MaA or archers or if I am using a spear as a primary I’d prefer to duel with a War Axe.


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