A suggestion on feints! :D



  • [deleted]



  • 1 heavy wep with 1 hit capability and a light wep vs 1 person, you could have the light wep feint and the heavy wep kill instantly. Considering the person defending often starts the 2v1 damaged the heavier wep can on the attackers side can often 1 hit and just needs the opportunity provided by the feint.

    So why did the defender allow the two opponents to get into a position where they could both hit him? He should be moving around doing his best to control the situation so that only 1 enemy is an immediate threat. This is the secret to 1vN fights, position yourself so that your enemy is between you and the rest of his buddies, yes this requires constant moving.

    If both enemies can hit you at any time, you are pretty much in a losing position.



  • @Toll:

    So why did the defender allow the two opponents to get into a position where they could both hit him?…

    That is too easy to say when you’re a VG Mr Toll….

    Classes that don’t have 120degree extended range tracer protection (to either side) can’t spam to protect themselves. (i’m not saying they you spam, but you can see my point)



  • @giantyak:

    That is too easy to say when you’re a VG Mr Toll….

    Classes that don’t have 120degree extended range tracer protection (to either side) can’t spam to protect themselves. (i’m not saying they you spam, but you can see my point)

    They can do other things to protect themselves though. Knights must stick with the team, preferably with other knights, maa’s are of course the best 1v2ers in the game due to their speed, and archers are ******s.

    Edit: lol censored for Gregcau. #plsnoddoshavemercy



  • @JimmyTryhard:

    Fights are based on chance, rather than skill due to its rock paper scissors nature

    As oversimplified you are making feints, sure I’ll go with it, however rock, paper, scissors is not a game of chance.

    In rock, paper, scissors, only each person controls what happens. There is no omnipotent force that is influencing the game outside of either player’s control.

    A dice game would be a game of chance, because you have no control of how the dice come out in the end. To further this, you are even shaking the dice to a point where you can’t even see the dice – so if you are going to argue that you have some degree of control, this is synonymous to putting on a blindfold.



  • That is too easy to say when you’re a VG Mr Toll….

    It applies to all classes. Also I play Knight about as equally as Vanguard with maa a little more. Archers I play rarely. I do like getting my Longsword on.



  • Also rock paper scissors is not completely random. There are scientific papers about it. Some people win far more often than chance.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    As oversimplified you are making feints, sure I’ll go with it, however rock, paper, scissors is not a game of chance.

    In rock, paper, scissors, only each person controls what happens. There is no omnipotent force that is influencing the game outside of either player’s control.

    A dice game would be a game of chance, because you have no control of how the dice come out in the end. To further this, you are even shaking the dice to a point where you can’t even see the dice – so if you are going to argue that you have some degree of control, this is synonymous to putting on a blindfold.

    …Are you trying to tell me that… rock paper scissors… is not about chance???@#!$!?@!?#?!$?$
    You can control what you throw up, but you certainly can’t control what your opponent will. Same as feints.

    A dice, however is based on chance as well. It just involves less control like you said. But this does not mean that less control = more about chance. In fact when two parties have control, when one party cannot control the other, the outcome of both parties cannot be anything other than chance.



  • @Toll:

    Also rock paper scissors is not completely random. There are scientific papers about it. Some people win far more often than chance.

    Why don’t we all talk about feints instead of why rock paper scissors isn’t chance when it really is



  • @JimmyTryhard:

    Why don’t we all talk about feints instead of why rock paper scissors isn’t chance when it really is

    Is as though the things I post are ignored, no?



  • I think feints are fine for the most part, though stab feint window could be decreased with 0.1 or so, beyond 50 ping the stab feints of fast weapons are simply unreadable.



  • @JimmyTryhard:

    but you certainly can’t control what your opponent will.

    That is not chance, which I have already explained. Please refute with another point.

    Remember, chance is a 3rd outlier that influences an outcome. Player A controls his actions; Player B controls his actions; there is no formula or algorithm that influences either persons choice or outcome, both players are in control of their own action. However, if some pre-determined element came in and changed or influenced the actions of either Player A or Player B, such as critical hit%, then chance would be involved.

    Also another real-life example: If some people say Poker is all luck, why do the same people make it to the end of big tournaments? (note i said “ALL luck”)



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    Also another real-life example: If some people say Poker is all luck, why do the same people make it to the end of big tournaments? (note i said “ALL luck”)

    Same for rock paper scissors actually. It’s a lot of mind games. Just like feints.



  • disagree with this, if you increase the cost of feints then feint to parry will cost an extraordinary amount, and you have to ftp and cftp constantly now especially in group fights because if you kill someone and someone else is coming in to swing then you have to cftp. You’d get stun locked constantly if feints cost any more than they already do. Even 1 feint right now can cost you the fight so there’s no real reason to increase the stamina cost of them.

    if anything i’d REDUCE the cost of parrying and leave feints the way they are.



  • @Karasu:

    Same for rock paper scissors actually. It’s a lot of mind games. Just like feints.

    There is SOME luck in poker, especially if you just want to get a lucky cash out and quit. Simply the shuffling of the deck is the external force being put upon the players. However, good players have learned to “count” the odds and only play when the odds are in their favor.

    To say there is absolutely no luck in poker would be asinine.



  • Feints as they are now are fine.

    To use a feint takes risk. The risk of having your feint not work, then you at the least blow stamina for nothing.

    If you have trouble getting hit by feints, stop trying to read them. It’s very likely that you won’t read them all, not enough to rely on it.

    Instead control the situation, don’t stand in a position that allows for an effective feint. Generally this means the closer to your opponent the more likely their feint will work. Keep your distance, keep the initiative, don’t be afraid to backout/kick if things are getting shaky. You don’t have to kill your opponent in the fist 10 seconds. In Team Modes, you don’t have to kill your opponent, run away, come back and hit the little fucker in the back of the head Yarnu styles.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    There is SOME luck in poker, especially if you just want to get a lucky cash out and quit. Simply the shuffling of the deck is the external force being put upon the players. However, good players have learned to “count” the odds and only play when the odds are in their favor.

    To say there is absolutely no luck in poker would be asinine.

    Of course I wasn’t saying that there isn’t luck in poker. The best players win consistently though. Just like in RPS. Just like with feints. I think we agree though.



  • Bind feint to F10.

    Problem solved.



  • @Skreshavik:

    You’re talking about duel mechanics more than anything else…and it’s very flawed. Feints aren’t the magic bullet, but the obtuse circumstances involved in the exchange that will win the fight. Someone who decides to feint outside of their zone in an attempt to psyche me or steps into my zone and then starts winding up, I will punish them 100% of the time and press my advantage. If they’re out of their zone, they’re gonna either whiff or disengage. Both times, I close the distance and initiate the exchange due to their stamina disadvantage. If they decide to step in my zone and then windup, I get a free hit or force a FtP, again leading to a stam disadvantage.

    Feinting fights are almost 100% skill because you need to know weapon ranges and their attack patterns. If you know weapon ranges, you know how to start a feint fight. And after you engage, you’re thinking three steps ahead and playing off your intuition on how the player will react and catch them out of their parry. And lets just say you screw up somewhere and you’re getting feinted. The dreaded overhead brandistock feint at facehug distance into a stab/swing as an example. You can either dash to the left of the enemy player (tracers start on their right side) or you can pull a moose and matrix to victory since not a lot of people drag their attacks around while feinting. Some feints are near-impossible to read, such as the z-stab feint drag of the SoW. You can’t matrix away from it due to the enemy camera lowering to the ground into a successful overhead. So you rely on your intuition and try to break the combo with a kick and reset the fight, or attempt to disrupt the combo because 0.8 flinch times allow that.

    And even then, this is a 1v1 scenario. In a team fight, feinting burns a shitload of stamina and increases the length of the fight, for better or for worse.

    You are not ignored.

    Ok, so this is how you play with feints. You have given a very detailed explanation. So why don’t you think it is a good idea to limit the feintability of heavier weapons? You say feinting burns a shitload of stamina, which may be true if you feint multiple times, but as of now you can feint 6 times with any weapon and still have stamina left over for a parry or two.



  • Feinting with heavier weapons…they’re in a pretty bad spot with the flinch in release bug and most of them the problem stems from handle hits instead of feints. The Zwei and the Messer are probably the only two heavy weapons that can get away with feinting because of their accelerated overheads. Other heavy weapons just have too long of a windup time…If you also consider it some thought, you’ll hurt weapons that need CFtP most and buff weapons that don’t (maul CFtP times compared to dagger CFtP times.)

    Heavy weapon feints are also incredibly easy to read from a distance, and it would be silly to try feinting in facehug range since you’ll get flinched into oblivion. You’re thinking of a theoretical sceario with something like…I dunno, the maul and feinting to victory, right? Feint. Explode head. Feint. Explode head. Repeat ad naseum. Well, you might or might not predict the use of the feint, but you’ll have plenty of time to discern from visual data rather than intuition. The only heavy weapon feints that work well are the ones that can strike at the moment of release. Handle hits from a polearm or Messer/Zwei accelerated overheads are a couple examples. You can’t wait for the grunt otherwise they will have already struck you. You can try to flinch, but the windup times are only a tenth or two of a second slower than most other two-handers. I leave the Gmace out because you’ll eventually notice the windup time if they’re trying to psyche you out with an accelerated. Heavy weapons don’t perform well with feints. You’re better of dragging or controlling your zone than feinting.


Log in to reply