Handle hits should NOT cause flinch



  • Interesting, but I think the programming would be far more difficult than you think where as slightly reducing the swing trace is truly the simple solution from a DEV perspective. But then again, I don’t see them as much as a problem as those that are parading around on that bandwagon.



  • How about no lets find another solution?

    Deal a smaller amount of blunt damage. A bit less than a quarter staff. Causes flinch and acts like a one hand axe boop.



  • You’re asking for a global nerf to Maul, Gmace, and all polearms. People would just facehug and they wouldn’t be able to do anything about it. Instead of nerfing weapons, how about you just raise the tracers farther up on the handle on the worse weapons.


  • Mod

    @Flippy:

    You’re asking for a global nerf to Maul, Gmace, and all polearms. People would just facehug and they wouldn’t be able to do anything about it. Instead of nerfing weapons, how about you just raise the tracers farther up on the handle on the worse weapons.

    Well they could switch to their secondary weapon as it’s intended to be used for? I’m all for it.



  • @Tyoson:

    Well they could switch to their secondary weapon as it’s intended to be used for? I’m all for it.

    While you’re switching to your secondary, the enemy would have initiative, get a free hit for doing no work, (maybe even 2 free hits with faster weapons) and you’d be stuck using a shitty weapon against a much stronger weapon. Hooray for balance.


  • Mod

    @Flippy:

    While you’re switching to your secondary, the enemy would have initiative, get a free hit for doing no work, (maybe even 2 free hits with faster weapons) and you’d be stuck using a shitty weapon against a much stronger weapon. Hooray for balance.

    Well that’s sort of your fault for letting them get too close.



  • I’m not in favour of changing anything to create special hit categories for handles. All I want is for the weapon in question to be in a reasonable position when I get struck by it (i.e. not facing the wrong direction). I don’t care if I’m technically hit by the actual shaft of the weapon… that’s fine.

    Hopefully moving the tracers a bit further up the shaft would accomplish this?



  • @Tyoson:

    Well that’s sort of your fault for letting them get too close.

    There’s nothing you can reasonably do preventing them from getting to close. If they sprint and parry your attack any class can and will immediately sprint into facehug range.



  • Buff fast kick, that would solve the problem you mentioned.
    But to be honest i think making the handle/shaft/etc do blunt damage would be tricksy and then you have the issue that flippy has talked about - people face hugging to try and negate maul/gmace etc.
    This is why i suggested just remove the flinch, but keep the damage. So the deterrent of the damage is there, but if you find yourself in the position that you’re being hit with the shaft at least you won’t be flinched which to me doesn’t make any sense (as described earlier in the thread) .



  • Biased vote. I think they should flinch otherwise facehug fights would become very strange hittrade mashing but their damage should be greatly reduced. So I voted for the second option even if “leave them alone” is not the right thing to do.



  • @giantyak:

    Buff fast kick, that would solve the problem you mentioned.
    But to be honest i think making the handle/shaft/etc do blunt damage would be tricksy and then you have the issue that flippy has talked about - people face hugging to try and negate maul/gmace etc.
    This is why i suggested just remove the flinch, but keep the damage. So the deterrent of the damage is there, but if you find yourself in the position that you’re being hit with the shaft at least you won’t be flinched which to me doesn’t make any sense (as described earlier in the thread) .

    You very rarely have the stam to perform very many kicks in a comp game.

    Nerfing handle damage and making them not flinch (just those 2 options) would make people get really really close and just swing. They take quarterstaff damage and get a free hit on an opponent stuck in release and who doesn’t have to tools to keep distance.

    Not an ideal option.



  • @Evil:

    Biased vote. I think they should flinch otherwise facehug fights would become very strange hittrade mashing but their damage should be greatly reduced. So I voted for the second option even if “leave them alone” is not the right thing to do.

    I would choose riposte over hit trade. I think you’d only see mish-mash hit trading in nub fights. They’d learn quickly.



  • whats wrong with handle hits not doing damage at all?

    don’t block the sword block the handle!..… should be something I hope I never have to say



  • @Tombstone:

    whats wrong with handle hits not doing damage at all?

    don’t block the sword block the handle!..… should be something I hope I never have to say

    Do people read? Because people would just facehug those weapons the first chance they got. Polearms would be completely useless.



  • If they just removed the red hit tracers drawn from the area of each weapon where the hands are, of course making exceptions for the tiny weapons like dagger etc. Then you would still have very quick attacks hitting from look down over heads, except you wouldn’t at least be getting hit by the bottom most handle of weapons aka Greatsword, Dane Axe, Polearms, Poleaxe, G.Mace

    Wildluffy explained all this and I couldn’t see anything wrong with it.


  • Mod

    I’ve hit with the bottom of my dubaxe sometimes. It’s brutally fast, I actually apologized for beating the guy with a handle hit. Felt cheap.



  • @Flippy:

    Do people read? Because people would just facehug those weapons the first chance they got. Polearms would be completely useless.

    but as it stands right now you’ve got vanguards trying to facehug because of handle hits the whole point of a polearm is to maintain distance if you cant do that then you’ve already failed at using that weapon.

    besides a kick is great for creating distance with a facehugger



  • I think the crux of this issue is that now that the bubble has been reduced handle hits start in or nearly in the players model. There are various solutions:
    -slightly increase the size of the bubble again so that handle hits don’t happen inside your private spaces :O
    -remove the tracer from the handle (but that won’t work for the barduche, for example)
    -add additional animations to show how handle hits work: pommel bash, alternate short range polearm attacks (there is two that i can think of.)
    -add shield and weapon collision boxes so that weapons can’t cross each other paths = weapon clashes. You will be much less likely to have this problem as you’re most likely going to hit your opponents weapon or shield before you can start your windup inside them.
    -add collision boxes to weapons that are in windup so that if they touch any part of a player or his weapon/shield the attack is cancelled.

    I think the final option is a good one, because it would intimate how grappling and close hand to hand combat is. If someone is at face hug range IRL you can block at the limb rather than the weapon tip, with your free hand, and than finish your opponent with your swordarm.
    In this case you could run into your opponent if you can touch his weapon before he can finish his windup than you would interrupt his attack and close with your own attack.

    People would be much less likely to get into face hug range if this was the case with the game.

    Further consider the dagger it would be much harder to touch the dagger in windup (per above) as the tracer starts in a different place and the weapon is much smaller, so daggers would still have their place as a face hug range weapon.

    Everyone is happy



  • Handle hits can be annoying, but bubble asses are worse. Choose the better of two evils. Just remember, Chivalry is stupid, and all will become clear.



  • I never had a problem with landing overhead daggers on peoples’ rear though……
    Nevertheless, that boat has sailed.


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