Come on guys…



  • @Nohbdy111:

    Obviously that’s true, and my theories do bear out in reality. Whoever disagrees that they bear out in reality are observing reality incorrectly because my theories have yet to be proven false.

    You don’t think this comes across as arrogant? Your Reality is really in this case just your opinion, same as other people have their opinion. You are basically saying if we don’t agree with you then we’re wrong.

    And don’t give me that bullshit about experience counting for nothing, you should know that you can’t base everything off numbers in this game. You begin to sound like wildwulfy.



  • @Sophax:

    Stop caring so much Nohb. Its only gaem.

    Sorry for being the only intelligent person on these forums that actually wants to start topics and discuss them properly. (I would qualify Brutus, but he doesn’t create threads)

    Why can’t I have a single, good debate with any of you that oppose me? Why do you all ways have to throw retarded ideologies and pathetic excuses of arguments at me and say that they debunk my theories? The only feasible explanation is that you’re all just not intelligent enough to argue with me and I have yet to be proven otherwise. Brutus is the only one that comes close, but he isn’t even discussing the Grand Mace…



  • @Nohbdy111:

    Sorry for being the only intelligent person on these forums that actually wants to start topics and discuss them properly. (I would qualify Brutus, but he doesn’t create threads)

    Why can’t I have a single, good debate with any of you that oppose me? Why do you all ways have to throw retarded ideologies and pathetic excuses of arguments at me and say that they debunk my theories? The only feasible explanation is that you’re all just not intelligent enough to argue with me and I have yet to be proven otherwise. Brutus is the only one that comes close, but he isn’t even discussing the Grand Mace…

    Maybe because you call everyone retards?



  • It’s fine if you want to debate with others, but please refrain from insulting others.

    Thank you. :)



  • @gndo:

    You don’t think this comes across as arrogant? Your Reality is really in this case just your opinion, same as other people have their opinion. You are basically saying if we don’t agree with you then we’re wrong.

    Guess what? My opinion is proven and all of yours’ aren’t. It’s only logical that I’m the only one right if none of you can disprove my opinion and none of you can prove your opinion. Arrogant? Maybe. Realistic? Yup.

    And don’t give me that bullshit about experience counting for nothing,

    **
    It only counts for nothing if you can’t even prove it. You’re just spitting out words as if they’re fact with absolutely no justification. What don’t you understand about that?**

    you should know that you can’t base everything off numbers in this game.

    Last time I checked every single fucking thing in the universe can be proven with numbers. If you can’t comprehend that, leave my thread now.

    You begin to sound like wildwulfy.

    wildwulfy is one of the very few people on these forums that all most match my intelligence… You are in no position to say that about him.



  • Lol steady on Einstein.



  • Gndo, please don’t try to antagonize people.

    If you have nothing to say regarding the topic, then please don’t post. Thank you. :)



  • I posted my opinion on the topic then basically was called a retard, but Ok, I will leave it.



  • You still tried to instigate a fight. Two wrongs don’t make a right. If someone is being insulting, then take the high road. Insulting others or being rude is never okay on the forums.



  • Maybe everyone should take a step back and recollect on the same page?



  • @Flippy:

    So many walls good lord. Who cares about “logic” when the fact is, in scrims the Gmace doesn’t normally perform well. The only person I’ve ever seen seriously use it is Guts and he even prefers the SoW over the Gmace. Why are you so hell-bent on getting the thing nerfed when nobody ever even uses it outside of duels? The handle-hits on it are broken, we can all agree on that. That’s why it’s used so heavily in kendos and duels. But in teamfights against good players spamming handle-hits is gonna get you killed very quickly.

    Also please for the love of god quit making every single one of your posts a massive wall. It’s a headache to read and a headache to respond to.

    You don’t care about logic?!?

    Gmaces not viable in scrims…. since when!? Explain. I really don’t see why they aren’t. And just because it isn’t used more than other weapons doesn’t mean that it isn’t viable. If anything, Gmaces are one of THE MOST viable. Fast hits, high damage, good range. Not viable? I think not.

    You have only seen guts play gmace? So? Does that mean Guts is the best player and everything he does it right? I honestly have no clue how that is relevant.

    Handle hits are broken. So lets try to fix them! You pointed out that they are used because of their brokenness. Meaning they are viable. But you don’t seem to want to want to fix the broken mechanic? Your disbelief in logic is really showing here.

    How does handle hit spamming get you killed quickly? Name some drawbacks to handle hit spamming. There are none that come to my mind. If anything, it gets your enemies killed quickly!

    By the way, if you don’t want to read the content other users have to post and respond based off of their content, then there really is no point to you being here, is there?. Deal with the WoTs, or get out. No one wants to hear your opinion if it isn’t constructive. You are just talking down to us like you are always right. If you think you’re right, prove it. That’s how a debate works.

    Also, your passive aggressive comments to nohbdy are pretty toxic and I suggest you refrain from that type of behavior in the future. You should try not to further tarnish your reputation in the community.



  • @Nohbdy111:

    I know there’s another thread about the Grand Mace… But come on guys…

    LS(after proposed buffs) and SoW
    -Slightly faster combo times
    -Better stab in general
    -Better animations for drags(on Longsword)
    -SoW has very slightly faster OH and slash windups

    Grand Mace
    -Much better hits to kill, including the stab. The stab is longer than the Poleaxe’s due to higher release and it has exactly the same hits to kill as the Poleaxe’s stab when used in conjunction with an OH. The stab is not bad at all.
    -Handle hits a lot
    -Much higher stamina drain

    Not balanced at all, the Grand Mace has much, much more important benefits than the Longsword after proposed buffs i.e. it two shots Vanguards to the body with OHs and slashes, but it 4 shots Knights to the body and 3 Shia Knights with one head hit.

    Poleaxe
    -A stab that two shots Vanguards, MaA, and Archers to the body, however a stab-OH combo on the Grand Mace has exactly the same hits to kill.
    -A very slightly faster slash windup, but it can’t even two hit kill Vanguards
    -Much faster combo times, however it’s drags are very unreliable.

    Grand Mace
    -Faster OH windup and the OH has a better HTK against archers
    -OH to slash combo two hit kills Knights, unlike with the Poleaxe
    -Very reliable drags

    Not balanced, the Grand Mace has much more significant benefits.

    Messer
    -Better animations for drags
    -Slightly faster combo times
    -Can one shot MaA with a slash to the head, but this will likely be removed because it was an accident(unless TBS says otherwise) and that will not likely happen against decent MaA.

    Grand Mace
    -Better hits to kill
    -Faster windups
    -Longer
    -Handle hits a lot
    -Higher stamina drain

    Not balanced, the Grand Mace has much more benefits and more significant ones too.

    Maul
    -Much better overall hits to kill

    Grand Mace
    -Much faster
    -Longer

    Not balanced, the Grand Mace has more benefits. That’s comparing it to pretty much all of the current, most balanced Knight primaries. It’s not complicated. The Grand Mace has overall more be benefits than the other most balanced Knight weapons and less downsides, thus it makes other Knight weapons seem too niche to use in most situations and that is not balance. This is exactly what the pre-nerf LS and SoW did; it’s not necessarily OP, but it makes everything else have too little of a reason to use.

    And don’t use the “It’s a team game, nothing in OP or UP in team play” argument because that is just straight-up not true. The longer weapons will all ways be better in team fights and the faster weapons will all ways be better in duels. Are you really trying to tell me that a Zweihander is as good in duels as a Norse Sword and a Norse Sword is as good in team fights as the Zweihander? Let’s not be silly. The Zweihander has much better area denial in team situations, is much better at supporting team mates, and is much better at target switching than the Norse Sword. That is incredibly obvious and does not need to be argued. There are weapons that are balanced because they are stronger in duels, however they are weaker in team fights, but the Grand Mace is amazing in duels because it destroys Knights, is decent against Vanguards, and is as good against MaA as the Longsword, but it’s still good in team fights because it has decent reach and very high damage.

    Finally, the intended speciality of the Grand Mace is being a Knight counter, like the Maul. We can all agree on that, however the Maul suffers very bad against Vanguards and MaA and the Grand Mace is too, just not a bad. Unfortunately the Grand Mace’s fast windups, decent reach, and very high damage means that it’s about as good against Vanguards as the SoW, a Vanguard counter weapon and it’s as good against MaA as it and the LS too. This means that the Grand Mace is capable of taking on much more than its speciality is supposed to let it and that is not balanced. The Grand Mace should suffer dueling Vanguards and MaA, just not as bad as the Maul, but the current Grand Mace is strong enough such that it does not suffer against Vanguards and does not suffer against MaA enough. Any weapon that has enough benefits to even partially, but in this case it’s all most entirely, outweigh the weapon’s intended disadvantages is imbalanced.
    **
    To properly argue with me, make a counterargument for every single one of my points that you think are erroneous. If you just state your opinion and walk away without any justification or minimal justification, you are not going to help us make any progress, you are wasting our time, and your post will be ignored.
    **
    EDIT: Also, get over it. It’s a long post. If we want to properly discuss this then we must discuss everything possible.

    Agreed.



  • @JimmyTryhard:

    You don’t care about logic?!?

    Gmaces not viable in scrims…. since when!? Explain. I really don’t see why they aren’t. And just because it isn’t used more than other weapons doesn’t mean that it isn’t viable. If anything, Gmaces are one of THE MOST viable. Fast hits, high damage, good range. Not viable? I think not.

    You have only seen guts play gmace? So? Does that mean Guts is the best player and everything he does it right? I honestly have no clue how that is relevant.

    If no-one plays GMace in scrims it’s for a reason. And that reason is more than likely that it’s not that effective in scrims. Flippy wasn’t saying Guts was the best player, read his post again.



  • @gndo:

    If no-one plays GMace in scrims it’s for a reason. And that reason is more than likely that it’s not that effective in scrims. Flippy wasn’t saying Guts was the best player, read his post again.

    The “reason” is not always the same. Most people just underrate it I believe. But I seriously can’t know. Neither can you.

    Flippy didn’t say he was the best player, but he certainly implies that Guts’ use of the weapon must have some significance. It really doesn’t.



  • @JimmyTryhard:

    The “reason” is not always the same. Most people just underrate it I believe. But I seriously can’t know. Neither can you.

    Flippy didn’t say he was the best player, but he certainly implies that Guts’ use of the weapon must have some significance. It really doesn’t.

    I believe he meant apart from Guts no-one uses it seriously, that’s the only reason Guts was mentioned at all.



  • Longsword is fine. It has the best reach of any knight sword and it’s very dragable; without sacrificing speed or damage…yeah it’s fine. It’s not meant to “shine” in any one category; being pretty good in every category is what makes it great.



  • You don’t care about logic?!?

    Gmaces not viable in scrims…. since when!? Explain. I really don’t see why they aren’t. Andjust because it isn’t used more than other weapons doesn’t mean that it isn’t viable. If anything, Gmaces are one of THE MOST viable. Fast hits, high damage,good range. Not viable? I think not.

    The fact that it isn’t used as much as other weapons does strongly imply that it is not viable. Besides, there may be some things that you aren’t taking into account, such as the animations. Poleaxe would probably have better feints because while the Grandmace shares its depective animations, it lacks the speed to execute proper combofeints, target-switch and is generally too easy to parry by comparison.

    Handle hits are broken. So lets try to fix them! You pointed out that they are used because of their brokenness. Meaning they are viable. But you don’t seem to want to want to fix the broken mechanic? Your disbelief in logic is really showing here.

    Not sure what you mean by this, but grandmace doesn’t “handlehit” in the same way a polearm does, it hits along the length of the weapon, which is considerably later in the animation than a proper handlehit. Fixing this sort of thing isn’t as easy as “just removing the tracers at the handle”, because doing so would have some severe repercussions, the ones I can imagine off the top of my head would be inconsistent and misleading hits, such as hitting someone with their head up high much faster than someone who is crouching or simply looking down and general frustration at clearly hitting someone from a first person point of view, but not actually landing a hit due to artifical hit detectors. It bothers me every time I read someone going “just fix it”. It’s not as easy or simple as it seems.

    How does handle hit spamming get you killed quickly? Name some drawbacks to handle hit spamming. There are none that come to my mind. If anything, it gets your enemies killed quickly!

    1. You can’t see shit in a teamfight if you do this.
    2. If he parries, you have to move your camera up, making it harder to read a potential feint.
    3. Generally makes people want to target-switch onto you.



  • You don’t care about logic?!?

    No, I don’t. I care about what happens in-game, not numbers.

    Gmaces not viable in scrims…. since when!? Explain. I really don’t see why they aren’t. And just because it isn’t used more than other weapons doesn’t mean that it isn’t viable. If anything, Gmaces are one of THE MOST viable. Fast hits, high damage, good range. Not viable? I think not.

    I never said the Gmace wasn’t viable. I said, “the Gmace doesn’t normally perform well.” Implying that when most people use it, they don’t peform well or as well as they would’ve with a different weapon. Every weapon in the game is viable.

    You have only seen guts play gmace? So? Does that mean Guts is the best player and everything he does it right? I honestly have no clue how that is relevant.

    “The only person I’ve ever seen seriously use it is Guts and he even prefers the SoW over the Gmace.”

    I said that because if the Gmace was as OP and as easy to use as you people make it out to be, more people would be using it and doing well with it in scrims which isn’t the case. It’s a very good weapon against knights, but a mediocre one against vanguards and MAA, out-shined by other weapons. It takes a skilled player to do well with it just like any other weapon.

    Handle hits are broken. So lets try to fix them! You pointed out that they are used because of their brokenness. Meaning they are viable. But you don’t seem to want to want to fix the broken mechanic? Your disbelief in logic is really showing here.

    I said that the handle hits on the Gmace are broken and that we can all agree on that. Then I said that even though the handle-hits are broken, spamming them in scrims will get you killed very easily. I never said anything else about them.

    How does handle hit spamming get you killed quickly? Name some drawbacks to handle hit spamming. There are none that come to my mind. If anything, it gets your enemies killed quickly!

    It would make you very predictable. Everyone would know you’re just gonna handle hit them so they’ll parry it easily. Also because you’re looking at the ground you’re completely blind to your sides making it very easy for an enemy to target switch onto you and making it impossible for you to see what’s going on at the same time. Plus if you handle-hit and they parry it, that leaves you more susceptible to a quick riposte or feint since you have to look back up.

    By the way, if you don’t want to read the content other users have to post and respond based off of their content, then there really is no point to you being here, is there?. Deal with the WoTs, or get out. No one wants to hear your opinion if it isn’t constructive. You are just talking down to us like you are always right. If you think you’re right, prove it. That’s how a debate works.

    On all forums nobody wants to read massive walls except the people who already agree with what the other person is saying. It makes it difficult to clearly decipher exactly what they’re saying, and makes it difficult to completely respond to unnecessarily. Especially when it could be shortened to 1 or 2 paragraphs but instead it’s bloated with big words and other jargon to make yourself look smarter.



  • It is not that there are “no points that contradict you”, it is that you are completely “unable to identify points that contradict you”. I posted this in one of the other limitless GM OP threads that have randomly spawned everywhere, but i figured id put it here given that this one is active. Ofc the quotes from nohbody are from what he put there.

    @Nohbdy111:

    This makes the Maul very niche compared to the Grand Mace.

    Yes. Maul is meant to be niche. It is the only weapon that can technically oneshot every class: that is its purpose, its niche. Maul has the potential to be the most devastating melee weapon for that reason.

    @Nohbdy111:

    The Grand Mace is as good against MaA as the a LS or SoW

    This is just entirely incorrect, Longsword and SoW are probably the best (primary) knight weapons to use against a MAA, by a long distance. Ofc overall its still a terrible idea to try and take on a good maa solo with any knight weapon, but if you cant see how longsword or SoW are far better vs MAA then I cannot pull you from the depths of your own ignorance. What planet are you on?

    @Nohbdy111:

    Choose Poleaxe (over GM) and be only a small amount better against Vanguards but not be nearly as good against Knights?

    Poleaxe is a shit tonne better against vanguards: its stabs, stabfeints, stab ripostes… are excellent. It two shots them, easily possible using combos of several different attacks: is pretty fast, deceptive, and long. Plus its animations are not exactly easy to keep track of in duels, let alone teamfights. Poleaxe stabs are also draggable enough to be very useful, particularly if you are dragging round a parry of a person who is not totally facing you dead on (i.e catching someone 2v1)

    It is, practically speaking, (ignoring numbers ffs) JUST as good against knights - as two overheads will kill a knight 95% of the time: it also packs handlehits (fix these TB ofc). In a teamfight, this is all you need. Lets not forget, its stab/overhead can also two shot knights - faster than GM can drop one, and reliably enough to be a massive boon. For this reason, feinting off the overhead after a successful stab is absolutely terrifying and very effective.

    To summarise, Poleaxe is a shit tonne better vs vanguards, and almost as good vs knights. Its slash is also faster, and thus more effective for chasing MAAs around with in a pinch - whilst dealing MORE damage to them due to its damage typing (compared to blunt from GM). So Poleaxe is also better vs light classes.

    You think poleaxe needs a nerf? Ofc it doesnt, but for the sake of the point: i’d say poleaxe is in more need of a nerf than GM.

    @Nohbdy111:

    Double Axe and gain a near impossible one shot potential against MaA and I return get zoned easily by Vanguards and not be as good against Knights? No thanks. Bearded Axe and be better against MaA but get completely shut down by Vanguards and be much worse against other Knights? Nope. Warhammer and be worse against Knights, much worse against vanguards and only a tiny but better against MaA? Terrible idea. Longsword or SoW and be sooo much worse against Knights and only be slightly better against MaA and Vanguards.

    All of those weapons, famously, need buffs. They all range from terrible to lightly underpowered, made effective only by vast skill (which is better used with other things), without exception.

    @Nohbdy111:

    GM has overwhelming benefits and scarce disadvantages

    No, as already pointed out: poleaxe is a better choice in just about every area in practice, especially vs vanguards, except ofc it is NOT quite as dangerous to knights in damage per shot. But, it still two shots them! Poleaxe? Every attack is effective. GM? Your using 90% overheads, or your wasting precious seconds and HTK on other (slow and readable) attacks just for the sake of being a bit unusual. Thats a big disadvantage right there, its predictable.

    You can call it “anecdotal evidence” all you want, but vs good vanguards: you want a poleaxe all day over a GM.

    To make it clear: GM’s disadvantage is that it is basically a one attack weapon, that is less effective against ALL classes than other choices. Its not terrible vs vanguard, it does the job: but theres better out there for that task. SoW (underpowered overall btw) is better vs vanguard, but is also better against MAA by a long way. Poleaxe is better vs vanguards by a long way also, yet nearly as effective vs knights.

    Its advantage is that it is very effective against ONE class.



  • Well done. I look forward to some “logical” replies.


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