How to fix MAA



  • I know that I have been posting a lot of controversial threads lately. :) Here’s another one.

    So Alice and I were talking about a potential way to help fix the maa.

    First and foremost, I would like to state the main issues with the Man at Arms class.

    **-Dodge not interrupting health regen
    -Dodge ignoring flinch
    -Being able to parry and riposte during dodge (glitchy offensive maneuvers happen because of this)
    -Superdodge (At least 6 people can do this now, if it were to be spread any further it would become a serious problem)
    **
    *Superdodge is a combination of mechanics that allows users to leap long distances, much longer than a dodge
    [Only the kick and battlecry variants were fixed, there is still one version remaining]

    Now, I want to talk about an interesting idea we had. The below idea something to be CONSIDERED. The above problems are absolutely required to fix the MAA.

    **-Eliminate/reduce distance of backwards dodging
    **
    Now, I know what many of you MAA out there are thinking. “Can’t I just turn around and dodge forward? Same thing as a backdodge.”

    Yes, you could certainly still dodge out of battle in an attempt to recover, but you would have to make the extra effort and change both your sightlines as well as expose yourself. Backdodging is really too easy to perform at the moment and gives too much reward for risk. Dodging in the opposite direction of the fight would still be possible, but with more effort involved and with the risk of exposing yourself. No more unchasable MAAs that dodge when you swing at them and backpedal continuously to regen health, since dodging doesn’t interrupt health regen.

    Please share your thoughts on the idea. However, I do not think the existence of the “main issues” I mentioned is even debatable. They seriously make MAAs impossible to chase as they can continue to backdodge and backpedal until their health is full or until they get bored.

    Note: I have mained maa for at least 700 hours now, both in competitive teamplay, dueling, and pubbing. It is still my go to class in competitive play.

    Another Note: **_If a dev needs an explanation on how a superdodge works I can show the method to them to help them sooner patch it. You can reach me on steam.

    _**_Simply search “darksyross” and my profile “Kt | jimmytryhard” will promptly show up.

    _EDIT: I think that the current bugs should be fixed before elimination of the backdodge is considered to be implemented. I would like to see how everything balances out with the bugs fixed and the presence of backdodge. The main reason MAAs are hard to capture now is because they don’t receive health penalties for dodging and their backdodges can take them far enough so that they are not possible to catch and have enough time to regen stamina for another one.



  • doesnt need any changes beside superdodge



  • Disabling backward dodge would likely make me give up playing the MAA again.

    I do think superdodge and Dodge not interrupting health regen should be fixed (if the latter is actually true).



  • **-Dodge not interrupting health regen
    -Dodge ignoring flinch
    -Being able to parry and riposte during dodge (glitchy offensive maneuvers happen because of this)
    -Superdodge (At least 6 people can do this now, if it were to be spread any further it would become a serious problem)

    **I’d say these need fixing but I don’t see how no back dodge would fix it, and I personally don’t think removing it is necessary, just fix the above and leave it alone. Although I think being able to parry in dodge is fine.



  • +1

    /balance



  • I think MAA are generally well balanced in team fights, and incredibly OP in duels. Regardless of their balance status, MAA are simply not fun to fight against. I’d love if the MAA matchup could be made more interesting and less one dimensional.



  • If I’m playing any class other than MAA and come across a maa in a team game, I try to ignore fighting them unless there is enough advantage in me doing so, ie my weapon + terrain is on my side, or he is like a kick away from death, or he just plain isn’t looking. Otherwise it’s not worth the time.



  • @JimmyTryhard:

    I know that I have been posting a lot of controversial threads lately. :) Here’s another one.

    So Alice and I were talking about a potential way to help fix the maa.

    First and foremost, I would like to state the main issues with the Man at Arms class.

    **-Dodge not interrupting health regen
    -Dodge ignoring flinch
    -Being able to parry and riposte during dodge (glitchy offensive maneuvers happen because of this)
    -Superdodge (At least 6 people can do this now, if it were to be spread any further it would become a serious problem)
    **
    *Superdodge is a combination of mechanics that allows users to leap long distances, much longer than a dodge
    [Only the kick and battlecry variants were fixed, there is still one version remaining]

    Now, I want to talk about an interesting idea we had. The below idea something to be CONSIDERED. The above problems are absolutely required to fix the MAA.

    **-Eliminate backwards dodging
    **
    Now, I know what many of you MAA out there are thinking. “Can’t I just turn around and dodge forward? Same thing as a backdodge.”

    Yes, you could certainly still dodge out of battle in an attempt to recover, but you would have to make the extra effort and change both your sightlines as well as expose yourself. Backdodging is really too easy to perform at the moment and gives too much reward for risk. Dodging in the opposite direction of the fight would still be possible, but with more effort involved and with the risk of exposing yourself. No more unchasable MAAs that dodge when you swing at them and backpedal continuously to regen health, since dodging doesn’t interrupt health regen.

    Please share your thoughts on the idea. However, I do not think the existence of the “main issues” I mentioned is even debatable. They seriously make MAAs impossible to chase as they can continue to backdodge and backpedal until their health is full or until they get bored.

    Note: I have mained maa for at least 700 hours now, both in competitive teamplay, dueling, and pubbing. It is still my go to class in competitive play.

    Another Note: **_If a dev needs an explanation on how a superdodge works I can show the method to them to help them sooner patch it. You can reach me on steam.

    _**Simply search “darksyross” and my profile “Kt | jimmytryhard” will promptly show up.

    I agree with all of this^^^



  • These aren’t exactly balance issues, more bugs that have remained prevalent with the MaA. I hope none of you are thinking that you should “balance” the MaA off or around these bugs. Presumably they will get fixed and we can go back to fighting non exploiting MaA.

    Dodge not interrupting health regen - Obviously this is a bug as this requires stamina to use and actions that require stamina interrupt health regen

    Dodge ignoring flinch - Acknowledged and confirmed as a bug

    Being able to parry and riposte during dodge (glitchy offensive maneuvers happen because of this) - Obviously you should be able to parry during the dodge state but you shouldn’t be allowed to riposte. Again, this is just another bug with the dodge state.

    Superdodge (At least 6 people can do this now, if it were to be spread any further it would become a serious problem) - Fun to do but yeah a bug which I will see sad to go.

    Just reduce the distance ever so slightly on back dodge. Make it more like a back step instead of a big leap backwards. If this encourages MaA to turn around and forward dodge in the same backwards direction then so be it.



  • Why the hell would you want to reduce the distance of the backwards dodge? Part of the disadvantage is the distance it gives. Dueling doesn’t matter, the game isn’t balanced around duels and it’s impossible to balance around duels. But in a teamfight if a MAA dodges backwards, he’s put himself out of the fight. If I’m fighting a MAA and he dodges backwards, I say “ba bye” and go smack his teammates in the back while he’s playing catch-up.

    Plus vanguards can zone MAA easily anyway.



  • @Flippy:

    Why the hell would you want to reduce the distance of the backwards dodge? Part of the disadvantage is the distance it gives. Dueling doesn’t matter, the game isn’t balanced around duels and it’s impossible to balance around duels. But in a teamfight if a MAA dodges backwards, he’s put himself out of the fight. If I’m fighting a MAA and he dodges backwards, I say “ba bye” and go smack his teammates in the back while he’s playing catch-up.

    Plus vanguards can zone MAA easily anyway.

    They can just as easily hit you, their weapons and their footspeed make dodging backwards not a problem.



  • Back dodge puts you on the very edge of fights if done right where you can avoid most attacks while also just allowing you to rapidly sprint back into the fight. Meh, I probably wouldn’t see back dodge as much of a problem if it wasn’t for shit like recovery or flinch bypassing with dodge. HWS dodge spamming cunts who can’t be flinched is annoying.



  • Dodging backward out of an attack and striking before the parry is MAA bread and butter, even when panic parry was prevelant it was a sure-fire way of winning the stamina war.

    Not sure how MAA would do without it. You may as well take away the vanguard’s kiting, or the knight’s manly voice.



  • @McLumberjack:

    Dodging backward out of an attack and striking before the parry is MAA bread and butter, even when panic parry was prevelant it was a sure-fire way of winning the stamina war.

    Not sure how MAA would do without it. You may as well take away the vanguard’s kiting, or the knight’s manly voice.

    Well the better MaA tend to use side dodges and footwork more often than back dodge anyways.



  • @gndo:

    Well the better MaA tend to use side dodges and footwork more often than back dodge anyways.

    In a duel, maybe. In a team game that’s liable to put you in strike range of other enemies or mess up your allies, unless you’re picking off a straggler. Used to do that on occasion anyway, slip through the gaps in the line and cause dodging havoc, but with the stamina nerf and a general spammier tone since the last patch it’s become a lot less effective. Plus I’m rather out of practice as an MAA.

    Of course, you shouldn’t balance the game solely for the better players. It needs to work across a range to keep the new blood coming in.



  • True, I guess I’ve been doing so much classic duel recently my brain is in duel mode right now :D



  • @DokB:

    These aren’t exactly balance issues, more bugs that have remained prevalent with the MaA. I hope none of you are thinking that you should “balance” the MaA off or around these bugs. Presumably they will get fixed and we can go back to fighting non exploiting MaA.

    Dodge not interrupting health regen - Obviously this is a bug as this requires stamina to use and actions that require stamina interrupt health regen

    Dodge ignoring flinch - Acknowledged and confirmed as a bug

    Being able to parry and riposte during dodge (glitchy offensive maneuvers happen because of this) - Obviously you should be able to parry during the dodge state but you shouldn’t be allowed to riposte. Again, this is just another bug with the dodge state.

    Superdodge (At least 6 people can do this now, if it were to be spread any further it would become a serious problem) - Fun to do but yeah a bug which I will see sad to go.

    Just reduce the distance ever so slightly on back dodge. Make it more like a back step instead of a big leap backwards. If this encourages MaA to turn around and forward dodge in the same backwards direction then so be it.

    I like the distance reduction idea. That would be a balanced, easy alternative to taking backdodge away altogether. Also, once they fix the main bugs, backdodges won’t be as much of a problem anyways.

    :) I like your post.



  • you forgot that they can also dodge after failing to read a feint and parrying, so even if they don’t dodge during feint and they parry and miss the parry, they can still get away from your feint



  • @50ShadesofClay:

    you forgot that they can also dodge after failing to read a feint and parrying, so even if they don’t dodge during feint and they parry and miss the parry, they can still get away from your feint

    Is this a recent thing? I’ve always thought you could dodge during the parry recovery but whenever I try to do it it just fails to do anything unless I hammer the shit out of the dodge key but I’ve already been hit by the attack thats followed the feint.



  • well it happens against me all the time, feint an maa and they fall for it while i’m in their face finaly after dodging me so many times already… and after they parry when i go for the actual hit they just dodge out of it.

    most of the time i get my hit in, but that’s because the maa probably isn’t spamming dodge like any “skilled” man at arms is doing.


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