Double Kills?



  • I may be the only one who’d like to see this…but maybe I’ll be surprised. When two people at low life both release a swing instead of one being reduced to 1 life(the guy who hit first), and the other dying. Why not both die? The difference was a millisecond and the momentum isn’t just going to stop. I understand it’s not reality and that the game is focused on fun but it seems that scenario rewards the faster weapon. Also I’m not a noob who just wants easy kills. I often end up on the winning side of this but I don’t like it. It rewards spammy gameplay. Either someone blocks or you both die.


  • Global Moderator

    Unrealistic and will only encourage hit trading.



  • I wish projectiles would do this. Melee not so much.



  • @lemonater47:

    Unrealistic and will only encourage hit trading.

    It is more realistic. If you drop a bottle just before your death, the bottle will not become fantomatic. It will break. Why not the same for a sword ?



  • For like 100 different physics reasons.



  • It would make duels dumb with too many draws.



  • What reason can cancel inertie ?



  • It would reward dumb button-smashing spam attacks



  • It would encourage people to just spam attacks. I would like this for projectiles but not for melee.



  • With that system, spamming with a fast sword will be more dangerous for the spammer how could it encourage people to spam ?



  • @Bardaf:

    With that system, spamming with a fast sword will be more dangerous for the spammer how could it encourage people to spam ?

    because even if they atack at the wrong time, they will still hit the oponent, even if they die first


  • Global Moderator

    @Bardaf:

    It is more realistic. If you drop a bottle just before your death, the bottle will not become fantomatic. It will break. Why not the same for a sword ?

    The force behind the weapon will be gone as the guy swinging it would be dying in some way or already dead. The weapon would twist, loose the force behind it so it would harmlessly bounce off the other guy. And 98 other physics reasons.

    And again it would encourage hit trading and spamming.



  • I thought when I read the title that you meant killing two people with one swing, which is always nice, but it’s just THIS again. Maybe someone should make a mod that allows tracers on melee weapons to continue after death, so people like the OP can play it and realise what a horrible idea it is. What’s the point of even being able to interrupt a swing at that point? Might as well remove flinch and recovery, then we can have a nice spamfest for 10 minutes until everyone goes over to runescape for more realism, turns to alcohol, realises how far they’ve fallen because of you, and then hangs themself to escape the pit of soul-wrenching dread that your idea has cast them into.

    Anyway, that was my positive, upbeat rant of the day.



  • @lemonater47:

    The force behind the weapon will be gone as the guy swinging it would be dying in some way or already dead. The weapon would twist, loose the force behind it so it would harmlessly bounce off the other guy. And 98 other physics reasons.

    And again it would encourage hit trading and spamming.

    You don’t have to be a physicist to know that the momentum of an object doesn’t instantly disappear when you stop applying force to it (i.e. dying mid swing). It decelerates, and in the case of swinging a giant sword at full force… well I haven’t performed an experiment, but let’s say a baseball player swings at a ball and immediately faints mid swing. Maybe he has low blood sugar. Assuming he also releases the bat as to allow it to continue to travel in the same path, it’s still going to knock the hell out of the ball, depending on how far he was into the swing.

    But none of this matters, because drags. You can also simply touch someone with the tip of your sword after you’ve completed the swing and it will still cause the same amount of damage as it would if you hit them in the middle of the swing.

    Also, DW is already a spamfest. I think Oy has a good idea. I’d like to playtest this in a mod.



  • weapons are magic and can’t bounce in video games. If the man die and the sword is at one millimeter of the head, it dosen’t have time to do many unexpected things. I am also curious about your vision of physics and your 98 reasons.



  • For a cinematic example of “why this sounds good but maybe wouldn’t work,” I would suggest Beat Takeshi’s Zatoichi movie.

    While your momentum may continue, and may still inflict a damaging wound, the force of the swing will be ablated/misdirected rather quickly by the tissue it hits. Constant, continuous force is required after the initial contact to ensure a fatal hit. If you have access to a maul and some wood rounds you can experience the reality of this firsthand by, well, trying to chop some wood! If you can muster the muscle control necessary, try letting all of your force go as soon as/shortly before you make contact with the wood. Unless you are one lucky devil, the maul is going to bounce and fail to split the wood (if you seriously try this, absolutely look out for the back of the wedge bouncing into you/simply missing and amputating some toes.)

    Wood is a difficult example, as what you are really doing is looking for weaknesses in the grain and trying to direct a powerful strike into the center of that weakness. Still, between a ‘good’ hit and a ‘bad’ hit, I think you would get a feeling for the difference and what is required to make a ‘good’ hit, and why continuous directed force is necessary.

    Edit: There are cases where one may be able to ensure autonomous body movement after decapitation or similarly debilitating injuries. These are not the norm, and until full biometric scans become standard components of games I do not think this provides a legitimate basis for the inclusion of this mechanic.



  • @IP:

    For a cinematic example of “why this sounds good but maybe wouldn’t work,” I would suggest Beat Takeshi’s Zatoichi movie.

    While your momentum may continue, and may still inflict a damaging wound, the force of the swing will be ablated/misdirected rather quickly by the tissue it hits. Constant, continuous force is required after the initial contact to ensure a fatal hit. If you have access to a maul and some wood rounds you can experience the reality of this firsthand by, well, trying to chop some wood! If you can muster the muscle control necessary, try letting all of your force go as soon as/shortly before you make contact with the wood. Unless you are one lucky devil, the maul is going to bounce and fail to split the wood (if you seriously try this, absolutely look out for the back of the wedge bouncing into you/simply missing and amputating some toes.)

    Wood is a difficult example, as what you are really doing is looking for weaknesses in the grain and trying to direct a powerful strike into the center of that weakness. Still, between a ‘good’ hit and a ‘bad’ hit, I think you would get a feeling for the difference and what is required to make a ‘good’ hit, and why continuous directed force is necessary.

    Edit: There are cases where one may be able to ensure autonomous body movement after decapitation or similarly debilitating injuries. These are not the norm, and until full biometric scans become standard components of games I do not think this provides a legitimate basis for the inclusion of this mechanic.

    You are not applying continuous force when you send a javelin through your opponent’s head, nor if I were to simply fling my axe into the log I’m attempting to cut in your analogy.



  • Everybody agrees that projectiles should stay active after your death. It’s an age old bug.



  • @lejosh:

    You are not applying continuous force when you send a javelin through your opponent’s head, nor if I were to simply fling my axe into the log I’m attempting to cut in your analogy.

    Throwing the axe might cause penetration deep enough for the axe to stick in, but you’re not going to split the wood. The difference between a thrown javelin and a swung sword is a little extreme, so let’s not go there.

    I think your baseball player analogy was better, but it’s dependent on the person going totally limp mid-swing. And maybe gripping the bat like he was planning to hit a 2oz ball instead of a 200lb person (which is to say not very tightly), but let’s not go there either. The problem is that people don’t suddenly go limp when they begin the process of dying. They tend to tense up instead.

    The analogy itself is also a little too ideal and removed from the situation occurring. A more perfect analogy would be somebody running up behind the baseball player and whacking him over the head just before he hit the ball. Or, well, a better analogy than that would be somebody hitting him in the face just before he hit the ball, since the force being applied to the player would then be in opposition to the force the player was attempting to generate, thus negating some of it. And, of course, the closer one hit to his arm the more force would be negated, but hitting him in his center of mass would probably do pretty well too as power hits require putting your weight behind the swing.

    The point is, the physics and body mechanics involved here are waaaay too complex for this engine. Aside from exceptional circumstances, such as the person swinging the sword being on PCP and/or the person countering his swing being 10N away from his entire circulatory system suddenly rupturing, or two people running at each other with suicidal thrusts, the game is more or less handling the interaction correctly.



  • No one cares about real life physics in a game that strives to balance the mechanics and weapons. Balance and gameplay over realism at all times.