Shields Vs. Projectiles



  • I’ve always been a little disappointed in the way shields work in this game. You see an archer, you bring up a shield. Any archer worth his salt is now going to try and shoot you in the legs, so if you’re advancing or just staying where you are you’re still trying to strafe and hop and dodge and crouch.

    It’s balls.

    As proof of this the shields are drastically oversized and look pretty ridiculous. The MAA carts around a heater the size of a car door. It does the job of covering him in gameplay terms, but it looks absurd. To top it off these giant shields were at some point deemed Not Giant Enough, so now they even stop projectiles outside their boundaries, causing arrows to hover in the air.

    I had an idea how it could work differently while watching Vikings, a show on the history channel that should be called ‘Shield Wall!’ as it is their favourite phrase. There’s this scene:

    Ragnar and Torstein are playing a game where they throw and shoot things at each others’ shields to make them drop cups balanced on their heads. At one point, Ragnar tries to shoot Torstein in the face and both find it pretty hilarious. Y’know, Viking humour.

    This other guy turns up and has the wrong package or something (I was watching with the sound off), Ragnar is pretty angry so tries to shoot HIM in the face. Fortunately Torstein is pretty quick and catches the arrow. Later it turns out he’s the one who ordered Frozen on DVD, but didn’t say because he’s ashamed of his inferior SD format and deficit of special features.

    Anyway.

    It got me thinking it’d be pretty neat if we could do what Torstein did here, and save not just ourselves with our shields but also our team/nearby delivery persons. We could then shout ‘Shield Wall!’ just like they do on the show, line up and stop our noblemen or peasants from getting shot by pesky archers.

    The way it should happen is this: With a shield equipped all you have to do is focus on the source of the projectile, a bit like looking at the tip of a weapon to parry. Your character would then reach out and block anything that comes his way, as long as you keep the target centred. Bigger shields allow for a broader centre, while small shields require finer aim. As well as covering your own body you’d also cover a small area to the sides and above, allowing you to protect those around you.

    This’d achieve a couple of things:

    1: Shield use would be more dynamic and strategic rather than luck based.
    2: Shield models could be shrunk to their original, non-cartoon size, along with their hitboxes. This’d make life easier for Archers shooting unaware/unprepared targets…
    3: …but harder to shoot players who know what’s up.

    Possibly an idea for Chivalry 2, but I had to get it out of my brain so there it is.

    Vikings is a good show.



  • Wait, wait, wait, wait there a bit. I am a bit confused…. Why didn’t he just torrent it?



  • Not sure if you’ve every seen the collision frames….But the impression one could get from viewing them is that TB does not have the capabilities for such sophisticated mechanics.



  • @Martys:

    Wait, wait, wait, wait there a bit. I am a bit confused…. Why didn’t he just torrent it?

    In Viking times there was no internet, people had to get their copies of Frozen on physical media.

    @SargeTheGhey:

    Not sure if you’ve every seen the collision frames….But the impression one could get from viewing them is that TB does not have the capabilities for such sophisticated mechanics.

    Yes, well. Time to get sophisticated. You can do it TB, I believe in you.



  • Shield collision is not larger than the model, the arrow collision is.



  • @Kreittis:

    Shield collision is not larger than the model, the arrow collision is.

    It is, if you view the Retsnom’s post about hitboxes and bubble you can clearly see the purple shield hitbox is:
    -Always rectangular no matter what shield it is (even buckler)
    -Slightly larger than the shield itself, or in case of buckler and heater quite a lot larger
    -Only used for projectiles

    You can check it yourself, only if I remembered the command to show hitboxes….


  • Global Moderator

    That box is still only a reference. It isn’t actually the size of the actual shield block box. The real things is quite a bit smaller than the shown shield hit box.



  • The only thing I got from this thread is, “Why the hell is a Norseman using a recurved bow?”


  • Global Moderator

    Leg shots do 50% less damage.



  • @lemonater47:

    Leg shots do 50% less damage.

    Which is far too much.



  • I was playing archer last night (which I’m terrible at) however I found it really easy to hit shield guys in the legs. Part of it is that shield users tend to put their shield up and run straight at you giving you plenty of time to aim, rather than moving around and snaking which actually makes it harder.

    However the other thing is that you don’t seem to actually hit them in the legs, just anywhere under the shield. The arrows never seemed to go between the legs. I presume there is just a big hit box there rather than actually having to hit the leg models.


  • Global Moderator

    No it can go between the legs and miss. Done that plenty of times.



  • @lemonater47:

    No it can go between the legs and miss. Done that plenty of times.

    Really? Oh well I must have just been lucky then.



  • @lemonater47:

    No it can go between the legs and miss. Done that plenty of times.

    Happened to me plenty of times, kinda a rare thing though unless you aim for legs a lot…



  • I think a shield wall mechanic would be kind of cool, even if it was just a gimmick.
    I’ve seen some images of Knights with tower shields maintaining a wall, it seems like something that could get some giggles. It would also change the archer up quite a bit I think, which is good. Force the archers on walls and static positions to move around a bit more, giving lighter bows/sling more use due to being more mobile.



  • Shield walls work great :chuncky:, except when being hit with firepots, archers shooting gaps, vanguards with long weapons making gaps with knockback, more firepots, and the fact that shields are just pretty much inferior to fight with.

    Otherwise they work great.

    I wish it were not the case but it is.


  • Global Moderator

    I’ve seen a testudo. As it was moving it worked quite well until they ran into a ballista. Our team had 11 archers out of 16 team members so they decided a testudo would work.



  • Oh yeah I forgot ballistas, another thing that makes shield walls crap in this game.



  • @Dr:

    Oh yeah I forgot ballistas, another thing that makes shield walls crap in this game.

    I love how ballistas don’t count for team damage lol…



  • @lemonater47:

    I’ve seen a testudo. As it was moving it worked quite well until they ran into a ballista. Our team had 11 archers out of 16 team members so they decided a testudo would work.

    A firepot maa or two and that idea would fail quickly…