Feinting, my new thoughts, and a suggestion



  • I know I have been a proponent of a drastic feint nerf in the past. But after some time, I have actually practiced quite a lot and I can now read feints MUCH better than before. I’m certainly not the best at them, but I can do them well enough to perform very well in scrims. I do not think feints are quite as bad, but a small change may make the game more fun.

    Although I realize that the feint itself is not physically readable, in actual gameplay, if you are letting yourself go full defensive against feints you have a much lesser chance of survival, and you are already messing up. It’s not about whether the technique is physically readable at the moment, it’s more of how you should play and adapt to the enemy’s use of the technique (prediction, not reaction). I enjoy this concept, but the feint itself still seems a bit too powerful in the end. Defensive playstyles should have more benefit. I think that feints are a bit too long. A slight nerf in the feint window may help, or as some people say, a buff in the no-feint window.

    The main thing I would like to see about feints is for them to have a different purpose. They should be for psyching out opponents like head bobs and jumps, as these things are readable, unlike feints. If feints were just slightly more reliably readable, then feinting wouldn’t be a crutch for some playstyles as it seems to be at the moment. It would still be effective when in the heat of battle when tensions are high, but it wouldn’t be so powerful in EVERY situation as it is now.

    TL;DR
    Basically, I want the feints to be shortened a bit. Not drastically, but enough so that they are more reliably readable. This would allow it to be effective in intense situations, but not in every situation. Think of it almost like a head bob. If you’re psyched out, you will fall for it, but if you’re calm, it’s readable. Defensive playstyles just aren’t effective enough at the moment (against feints), which takes some dimension away from the game.

    Let me know your thoughts!

    Credit for the idea goes to Nohbdy.

    EDIT: Sorry, should have put it in Balance and Mechanics. I guess it’s alright here, though.

    EDIT:

    Like Nohbdy suggested, maybe we can make it so that you can’t attack immediately after feinting if you feint really late into the animation. You would only be able to parry. Then, you could buff feints back to full windup, allowing for easy cftps but not abusable offensive feints.

    This would make offensive feints short and readable but defensive feints extremely versatile!



  • Credit for the idea goes to Nohbody.

    No one can spell my name riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight :P


  • Global Moderator

    @Nohbdy111:

    No one can spell my name riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight :P

    When I wanted to post your name I had to open a tab and find a post of yours to copy and paste it.



  • @Nohbdy111:

    No one can spell my name riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight :P

    GAHH I spelled it Nohbdy at first but it didn’t look right!



  • @Nohbdy111:

    No one can spell my name riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight :P

    I always read your name as “Newb-buddie”….



  • -0.1 seconds would do.



  • Make it so the attack cool down after a feint is 800 milliseconds, but make it so the 800 millisecond attack cool down only happens if you feint in the last 275 milliseconds or either your windup or combo time. Also, make it so if you feint before the last 275 milliseconds of your windup or combo time, then the attack cool down after a feint will only be 200 milliseconds. This will accomplish multiple things:

    1. Finally again since the bubble patch, only feints that are capable of being read by using acute reactions will will capable of hitting the enemy if they fall for it. If they feint too late in a windup or combo, their attack after their feint will just be double parried. If they feint early enough such that the attack cool down after the feint is only 200 milliseconds, then you will be capable of reading the feint by reacting to it down to the tens of milliseconds.

    2. Full windup defensive feint window! :D

    3. This will also serve as a non-nerf to feints in team fights, because you will be capable of purposely throwing an unreactable feint and then your team mate can hit the enemy for falling for the full windup feint. And on too of this, reading feints will be so far down to the last tens of milliseconds that in the heat of battle during a team fight it will likely take a tremendous amount of skill to be able to react to a feint under all the heat.

    4. There will be skill in that would must know the timings of your weapon very well so that you can feint late enough so you have the best chance at tricking the enemy, but not so later that you throw a “dud” feint and be forced to wait a .8 second attack cool down.

    ^BAM, THE FEINT FIX WE NEED^

    Basically what the OP says but in detail



  • @Nohbdy111:

    Make it so the attack cool down after a feint is 800 milliseconds, but make it so the 800 millisecond attack cool down only happens if you feint in the last 275 milliseconds or either your windup or combo time. Also, make it so if you feint before the last 275 milliseconds of your windup or combo time, then the attack cool down after a feint will only be 200 milliseconds. This will accomplish multiple things:

    1. Finally again since the bubble patch, only feints that are capable of being read by using acute reactions will will capable of hitting the enemy if they fall for it. If they feint too late in a windup or combo, their attack after their feint will just be double parried. If they feint early enough such that the attack cool down after the feint is only 200 milliseconds, then you will be capable of reading the feint by reacting to it down to the tens of milliseconds.

    2. Full windup defensive feint window! :D

    3. This will also serve as a non-nerf to feints in team fights, because you will be capable of purposely throwing an unreactable feint and then your team mate can hit the enemy for falling for the full windup feint. And on too of this, reading feints will be so far down to the last tens of milliseconds that in the heat of battle during a team fight it will likely take a tremendous amount of skill to be able to react to a feint under all the heat.

    4. There will be skill in that would must know the timings of your weapon very well so that you can feint late enough so you have the best chance at tricking the enemy, but not so later that you throw a “dud” feint and be forced to wait a .8 second attack cool down.

    ^BAM, THE FEINT FIX WE NEED^

    Basically what the OP says but in detail

    Uhh for the first part, wasn’t something similar tried like last may in a beta?



  • @swagfox:

    Uhh for the first part, wasn’t something similar tried like last may in a beta?

    Yeah last June, I remember testing it. But the cool down in that beta was .5 seconds so a full windup feint would still work anyways. And then after that beta, they completely fucked it up and added a cool down no matter how early or late you feinted. Feinting it that beta would absolutely all ways have you get double parried if you have a two hander, but if you had a one hander feints would still work as well. Since both of those betas weren’t done correctly, especially the first one which was the best idea they ever had, they completely ditched bot ideas rather than trying to refine them >:(

    And there we go, I refined it and that is what we need in the live game.



  • Just don’t make feints useless for all of the crybabies, you don’t make a game fun by making it so you have less things to do.



  • @chivalryinterested:

    Just don’t make feints useless for all of the crybabies, you don’t make a game fun by making it so you have less things to do.

    You’re talking about cry babies, I thought you started playing chiv like a few weeks ago :P

    Idk who you are in-game, but it doesn’t matter. That fact is that I don’t want feints useless, I just don’t want them to nearly 100% outclass drags. Also,

    3. This will also serve as a non-nerf to feints in team fights, because you will be capable of purposely throwing an unreactable feint and then your team mate can hit the enemy for falling for the full windup feint. And on too of this, reading feints will be so far down to the last tens of milliseconds that in the heat of battle during a team fight it will likely take a tremendous amount of skill to be able to react to a feint under all the heat.

    Keep in mind that competitive team play is where it all matters and this will be a near nonexistent nerf to feints in competitive team play.



  • @Nohbdy111:

    Make it so the attack cool down after a feint is 800 milliseconds, but make it so the 800 millisecond attack cool down only happens if you feint in the last 275 milliseconds or either your windup or combo time. Also, make it so if you feint before the last 275 milliseconds of your windup or combo time, then the attack cool down after a feint will only be 200 milliseconds. This will accomplish multiple things:

    1. Finally again since the bubble patch, only feints that are capable of being read by using acute reactions will will capable of hitting the enemy if they fall for it. If they feint too late in a windup or combo, their attack after their feint will just be double parried. If they feint early enough such that the attack cool down after the feint is only 200 milliseconds, then you will be capable of reading the feint by reacting to it down to the tens of milliseconds.

    2. Full windup defensive feint window! :D

    3. This will also serve as a non-nerf to feints in team fights, because you will be capable of purposely throwing an unreactable feint and then your team mate can hit the enemy for falling for the full windup feint. And on too of this, reading feints will be so far down to the last tens of milliseconds that in the heat of battle during a team fight it will likely take a tremendous amount of skill to be able to react to a feint under all the heat.

    4. There will be skill in that would must know the timings of your weapon very well so that you can feint late enough so you have the best chance at tricking the enemy, but not so later that you throw a “dud” feint and be forced to wait a .8 second attack cool down.

    ^BAM, THE FEINT FIX WE NEED^

    Basically what the OP says but in detail

    So basically if you feint too late, you can’t attack right away but you can parry?

    This sounds good :D They should also make a crosshair animation for the point where you can’t attack anymore



  • Sadly people look at feints in the wrong perception and believe that they should be readable. They should not in anyway be readable but predictable. The idea of being reactionary to a “readable” feint totally defeats the purpose and design of a feint.

    NO they are not 100% more powerful than a drag. Feints do zero damage and they are not a guarantee of a win. Most of the upper tier players have zero problems with feints. It is not because they cannot read them or that they dont fall for them, they just know how to deal with them, predict and react properly to them. They have accepted the mechanic for what it is and intended and use/defend against it accordingly.

    I have several posts that go in depth as the hows, whys and proper ways to deal with them. If you fall for one that is on you because you have failed to anticipate your opponent and keep your distance. I have no problems with the mechanic. Yes it can frustrate me at times but if you properly analyze what happened honestly you will know that it was your fault for getting caught by one. Mostly it is patience and waiting that extra few milisecs before you parry or foot work to give yourself the best chances fro a proper responce. And to put it simply, the more you play the more you will see and learn.

    IF you start out with the attitude that using this mechanic is cheap, noobish, not chivalrous or something to be avoided at all cost then you are denying yourself the opportunity to get better because all you will want is a nerf.

    One of the things I have my new recruits do is to go into a packed FFA, play as many classes as possible over a few days. The only rules for them is that they cannot attack. All they can do is parry and evade attacks. The only attack they are allowed is a kick. You would be surprised at how fast they improve their parry and ability to predict attacks and to properly respond. They should not worry about KDR but their goal should be to die less each round and to possibly get as many kick kills as possible. It is quite challenging and can be a lot of fun.



  • Chivalry has been out for over a year and a half now and feints are STILL a thing.
    There are threads almost daily about feints and for good reason.
    Because they are stupid, and have been since they were introduced.

    The whole idea of a feint is stupid in this game since it practically guarantees a free hit on your opponent. The “elite” of this game try to justify feints by saying they are readable (they aren’t lol you must have potato syndrome if you think that feints are readable or predictable) which I find quite ironic since the very same people are found falling for them ingame just like everyone else. There is no way to tell a feint from a real attack. All you can do is try and wait until the last second to parry and good luck parrying if they’ve feinted into a lookdown overhead. In every server you play in, there is always somebody calling somebody else out on being a feg for using feints and with good reason.

    _Feints are a guessing game
    _

    I can deal with the all in one, can do absolutely everything greatsword and the pro rank 50s that use it exclusively and think they’re good.

    But feints are dogshit. I can’t believe that there are people that still actually defend feints.
    After all this time. All the butthurt it has caused. All the controversy for and against feints. Since release this has been a topic. And feints still aren’t gone or at least fixed.

    good feint m8! Wow that was a good feint! totally didn’t see that 1!! OMG that feint was amazing!!! gg
    What’s sad is I heard some clanfags say this in one of their videos the other day. GOOD FEINT M8 GOOD FEINT!!
    TB please fix the dogshit that is feints and stop spilling coffee all over the servers.
    But as I’m sure I’m going to be told by the best community ever, I guess I just need to “git gud”.
    GIT GUD M8 GOOD FEINT M8 GOOD FEINT!! TOP KEK I TIP MUH HELMET 2 U



  • Sadly people look at feints in the wrong perception and believe that they should be readable. They should not in anyway be readable but predictable. The idea of being reactionary to a “readable” feint totally defeats the purpose and design of a feint.

    1.a deceptive or pretended blow, thrust, or other movement, especially in boxing or fencing.
    “a brief feint at the opponent’s face”

    There’s the definition. The point of a feint is to deceive the enemy with a pretend attack. I’m pretty damn sure feints are capable of being read by reacting to them in boxing or fencing, not unreadable. I see absolutely no implication or intent for feints to happen so fast to that they can not be reacted. Just because the design of a feint is to deceive a person’s reactions, does not mean that they need to deceive a person’s reactions 100% of the time. So your statement is false, the only way that your statement could now be correct is if TBS has confirmed the fact that feints specific to chivalry should be capable of deceiving a players reactions 100% of the time and that they must be read by anticipation and I have never seen that happen, nor have I heard of that ever having happened.

    The rest of your post is completely pointless and idk why you wasted your time typing all of that… You do realize that Jimmy and I are both better players than you, right? It’s funny how you talk about “high level players” and yet you play for the biggest joke of a clan in North America XD



  • IT is not about getting good, it is about qq. And yes I have complimented players when they executed a good feint that caught me off guard and I made the mistake of doing something different. What cracks me up is all the whining about feinting but yet in every game I hear… THAT SWING WENT THROUGH MY PARRY. So again as I have articulated over the year that the bigger problem is the parry window itself. I have gone into great detail as to how it is a far more flawed system than the feint ever is.

    In addition I would say that the flinch mechanic if far more broken. The feint isnt broken in anyway. You are not supposed to be able to read it by design and by simple definition.

    1feint
    noun \ˈfānt\ sports : a quick movement that you make to trick an opponent

    Full Definition of FEINT

    : something feigned; specifically : a mock blow or attack on or toward one part in order to distract attention from the point one really intends to attack

    Examples of FEINT

    • The boxer made a feint with his right, then followed with a left hook.

    [h=2]2feint[/h] verb sports : to pretend to make an attack as a trick to fool your opponent : to make a feint

    1**:** to lure or deceive with a feint

    2**:** to make a pretense of

    Thus the mechanic works as advertised, as it should. It is probably one of the few mechanics that works as it should. You can complain about how players use or abuse it but you can do the same with any mechanic but that is not helping you get better at anticipating them.

    That is really the key and the reason why so many have problems with it, specially the lower ranked players in that they are failing to anticipate and expect the unexpected.

    If it is removed or nerfed in anyway the game will be a very boring meta game of who can make who run out of stamina first in the never ending hit trade.

    BORING……



  • @Nohbdy111:

    There’s the definition. The point of a feint is to deceive the enemy with a pretend attack. I’m pretty damn sure feints are capable of being read by reacting to them in boxing or fencing, not unreadable. I see absolutely no implication or intent for feints to happen so fast to that they can not be reacted. Just because the design of a feint is to deceive a person’s reactions, does not mean that they need to deceive a person’s reactions 100% of the time. So your statement is false, the only way that your statement could now be correct is if TBS has confirmed the fact that feints specific to chivalry should be capable of deceiving a players reactions 100% of the time and that they must be read by anticipation and I have never seen that happen, nor have I heard of that ever having happened.

    The rest of your post is completely pointless and idk why you wasted your time typing all of that… You do realize that Jimmy and I are both better players than you, right? It’s funny how you talk about “high level players” and yet you play for the biggest joke of a clan in North America XD

    BWAHAAHAHA Who are you again? Join date 1/02/2014? With 800+ posts in a few short months? I dont know you for shit kid other than what you spout in the forums. Guess what? I dont know who Jimmy is either. SO trying to get all insulting with my internet cock is bigger than yours and all personal is on you…… Let me guess, you are big in Japan…

    How can you claim to be better if you get caught 100% of the time by a feint? LOLS

    Damn man that is the funniest shit I have ever read… thanks for the laughs…



  • @Nohbdy111:

    You do realize that Jimmy and I are both better players than you, right? It’s funny how you talk about “high level players” and yet you play for the biggest joke of a clan in North America XD



  • @Retsnom:

    BWAHAAHAHA I dont know you for shit other than what you spout in the forums. Guess what? I dont know who Jimmy is either. SO trying to get all insulting with my internet cock is bigger than yours and all personal is on you…… Let me guess, you are big in Japan…

    I know who you are… Your memory must be too shitty.

    How can you claim to be better if you get caught 100% of the time by a feint? LOLS

    Find one single quote where I said, “100% of feints work on me” or anything related.

    Damn man that is the funniest shit I have ever read…. thanks for the laughs…

    I could say the same about what you just said. Dude, you play for the biggest joke of a clan that has ever existed. You’ve all been fucking hilariously bad players since release and you still are. Do you guys even play competitively? Last time I remember you guys entering a tournament was a long ass time ago and you guys got completely fucking destroyed lol. If you played competitively you would know me.



  • LOLs wow kid, you go with your E-penis! You haven’t been around long enough to be remembered. But hey at 6+ posts a day you are well on your way to catching up to Lemon! You know so little and assume way too much. Its all good though. Kila is the oldest active clan in Chivalry and has done more for the development of this game since 2005, longer than you have been able to touch yourself to computer screen. We have hosted more tournaments and matches than I can count. The point is, you have no clue and we really dont care what anyone thinks. I run a super chill clan that has nothing to prove to you or anyone. We will still be here when you and most clans go the way of the Dodo. So hate all you want. Talk trash all you want. Enjoy your hate.

    The E-Penis is strong with this one….

    BWAHAHAHAHAHA