I remember the archery balance council a long time ago.

  • Back when we had silly things like balance councils I remember in NA mr. lg height organized a little archer meeting a long time ago a lot of notable archers discussed solely archer balance and I remember what the conclusion we arrived at was.

    It was actually a nerf, very rarely do players who exclusively play one class decide that that class should be nerfed, you’d think it would be against our interests. It wasn’t a straight up make archers do X less damage cuz OP though. It was an idea that would actually improve the gameplay of archer over all. The theme was to increase the skill ceiling by adding new game mechanics.

    We talked about things like barbed arrows that drained stamina, pulling back on bows would reduce stamina like in TES: Oblivion, arrows designed for flinching, an accuracy system like counter strike, accuracy would hit sweet spots for a few seconds like in M&B and then steadily be lost, etc. One of the most fundamental changes though was the hit to kill on archer v archer. Right now as I hope most of you know the only weapons that are used seriously are the long ranged weapons that kill archers in one hit. The only time that changes is when the enemy team has no archers, and if they don’t have archers its a such a big loss for them its not even funny. If all archer weapons took at least 2 body shots to kill archers, archer duels would not decide the course of fights nearly as often because if you ever participated or watched an archer duel you know how long it takes for the archers to kill each other with 1 hit kill weapons.

    Another big change was to add separate damage types for arrows. Right now the system as far as I know is that broadheads do slash damage and bodkins do bluntpierce damage. If arrows were seperated into their own damage types, each class could have its own damage resistance specifically for arrows. Knights could be modified to no longer die in 2 shots from warbows for example (its been pointed out that good plate armor actually deflected arrows irl), if given a really high resistance to all arrow damage types but less resistance to bolts for example.

    Now most of these changes are pretty damn difficult for TBS to actually implement. So for a realistic change we could add the stamina drain on bows, that should be easy. The movement affects accuracy thing is actually in the game but does not work in multiplayer for some reason. All TBS has to do is bug fix that to get it in the game. Hell just the movement accuracy change would be enough to make shitty archers miss more often meaning less deaths to archers in TO which is what everyone I talk to seems to complain about. In fact if they had to stand still more often to shoot at enemies that would make counter arching much easier meaning archers would focus down other archers even more than they do now, focusing less on melee players who cannot fight back.

    These are my 3 pennies, and I think its an easy as pie way to improve the game substantially for all players.

  • Sounds good to me.

  • One thing you didn’t mention was damage fall-off over range. You mentioned good plate armour deflecting and even stopping arrows, but the truth was even shitty iron plate armour could stop an arrow at over 50 meters. Even if it didn’t the wound wasn’t deep enough to do any serious injury.

    Now chiv isn’t a sim (GET OUT), but it is an exaggerated version of something. The exaggeration here would be to make this effect better, have heavy armour stop all arrows at something like 15 meters or beyond, with a difference either way depending on the draw weight and arrow type. A warbow with a bodkin could do something like 20 meters, a heavy crossbow 25.

    This’d make arrows feel a bit more like arrows and less like sniper rifles. And yes it’s a boost to knights. I reckon they need one when it comes to range. Yes they have more health, but they’re bigger targets and slower. The net result is a wash at range, they’re as vulnerable as anyone and lack the feeling of being armoured.

    Lastly the archer could do with some of the buffs it’s received being rolled back. Movement speed, reload times, arrow speeds and drop-off have all had improvements over various patches. Accumulatively it went too far.

  • Lol @ people who think torn banner will balance this game.

  • xbow change was lame fuck crossbows

  • @McLumberjack:

    Lastly the archer could do with some of the buffs it’s received being rolled back. Movement speed, reload times, arrow speeds and drop-off have all had improvements over various patches. Accumulatively it went too far.

    Back until the January patch last year if you had a bow (or any ranged weapon out) and got hit you would be flinched,
    Now these days if you get with your bow out no biggie, just swap weapons and block easy unless your enemy has a super fast weapon like norse or claymore or billhook…

  • @rumpelstiltskin:

    Lol @ people who think torn banner will balance this game.

    I want to believe…

  • Not directly on topic, but god damn. I refuse to believe that TBS intended for archery to be this powerful and broken.

  • Its probably because it was a game mechanic that was never finished imo.

    The accuracy thing is in game but has never worked except in local games, that leads me to believe it was intended to be part of the game but its been brushed over for some reason.

    As far as I remember in AOC archery wasn’t that amazing because you only had the crossbow, longbow and javelins. The longbow is balanced to do mediocre damage but fire far and often so you’d shoot people multiple times to kill them, exactly like the longbow in Chivalry. Unlike AOC we have access to the Warbow which does the same thing except it fires slightly slower and hits for more damage, more range, and that damage is enough to make it kill in 1-2 hits on most classes.

    Same idea with the Crossbows and Javelins, Heavy Xbow is the best and Heavy Javelins as well. If the heavier weapons were to have a worse trade-off, like say significant accuracy penalties that would make using the lighter alternatives much more ideal.

    And like what was said, archer will need a complete rebalance if these mechanics because its probably an over-nerf if everything else about archer is left as is.

  • @rumpelstiltskin:

    Lol @ people who think torn banner will balance this game.

    I hope but TB has this reputaation of leaving broken things or unbalanced things permanent in their game.

    Look at HWS. I don’t get how it is in the game its so ANTI FUN its disgusting.

    Archers being retardely OP need a big nerf and change while still being usefull but not necessary.

  • @rumpelstiltskin:

    Lol @ people who think torn banner will balance this game.


  • Archer h/k ration is the biggest issue for me but I agree with most of your other change ideas as well. I don’t think having scatter with the projectiles is needed but I would be a ok with moving accuracy modifier.

  • Well yeah right now you have perfect accuracy while jumping.

  • Perfect accuracy while jumping is nice for very tricky shots like getting over shields or shooting over obstacles. I would be ok with perfect accuracy while jumping if a player is standing still while they jumped but we could give it the modifier if they were running and jumping.

  • Well jumping over shields and firing you could still do at point blank range duh with inaccuracy.

    Right now archers just hop everywhere while firing their arrows during archer duels to avoid getting hit. It just looks dumb.

  • I wouldn’t mind a spread system similar to counterstrike’s. But losing jumpshots would kinda suck.

    I would also suggest longer reload for crossbows, slightly slower strafe speed while aiming for crossbows,
    and probably lower ammo counts across the board.

    I also really liked the idea of lowering the damage for body/leg/arm hits but keeping it so that headshots still do a ton. Seems like a good way balance nerfing the class, while still keeping it rewarding to play.

    and holy fucking shit please for the love of god nerf heavy xbow damage.

  • I hope they do archer balancing right after the handlehitless patch ;)

  • As long as archers don’t flinch on every single hit I think they’d be less annoying, even so they need a damagenerf, pronto.

  • heavy crossbow is like throwing a maul at someone every 2 seconds

    except it has the longest range in the game and you get a ton of them

  • @zombojoe:

    heavy crossbow is like throwing a maul at someone every 2 seconds

    But even a maul can’t one shot a maa to the torso

Log in to reply