Wave spawn system.



  • As of right now, the maximum default respawn timer is 15 seconds. This is set in waves. However, this number is inconsistent and changes every wave.

    A long time ago, Faucheur attempted to try to log every respawn time and use this to our advantage in competitive play. What we found is that it was incredibly inconsistent and nearly impossible to track without having some 3rd party interface display (which we obviously didn’t end up resorting to). What i mean by inconsistent is that sometimes it was an 11 second wave, sometimes it was a 15 second wave, etc.

    Anyway, this is what we tried to do:

    What we used to do on defending is time clashes (or try to) when the respawn timer was getting close to the spawn time, so that if any of us died we would get a fast respawn. On attacking we would go for clashes right as that window passed so as we got kills, they would get a full respawn.

    –—

    I wouldn’t mind for that dynamic to stay in the game if it were consistent. It offers a dynamic timing meta that you could play more strategies off of. More strategy in a game that lacks enough strategy should be a welcomed thing.

    If this dynamic were to be implemented, should the respawn timer stay at 15? Should it be increased to 20 maybe? Also, should there be some interface element that shows when the next spawn wave is, or just make the clock less clunky? Also a clock in the default UI for TO somewhere.

    Or should the wave system be removed and everyone should have a 15 second respawn timer on death?



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    should the wave system be removed and everyone should have a 15 second respawn timer on death?

    This.

    Counting seconds for spawns is all fun and games but it’s still gonna be random sometimes and it shouldn’t be.



  • @rumpelstiltskin:

    This.

    Counting seconds for spawns is all fun and games but it’s still gonna be random sometimes and it shouldn’t be.

    For clarification, what i mean by inconsistent is that sometimes it was an 11 second wave, sometimes it was a 15 second wave, etc. It was like completely random. So sometimes when we thought we were perfectly timed with the wave… nope, full respawn time.



  • i prefer a timed system if it works good



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    For clarification, what i mean by inconsistent is that sometimes it was an 11 second wave, sometimes it was a 15 second wave, etc. It was like completely random. So sometimes when we thought we were perfectly timed with the wave… nope, full respawn time.

    I know, but even if you keep track of the timer, you will never know how long will it take for your opponents to die. Both inconsistent waves and consistent waves bring “randomness” to the table.



  • The spawntime penalty for teamkilling makes things unpedictable anyway. I think the wave system should be completely disabled in scrims (means everyone would insta spawn). The wave system is something that public servers need cause it’s the only way to make people gather instead of fighting and dying alone all the time. Not sure if it would fuck with the balance though, but I think it would be worth a try.



  • @rumpelstiltskin:

    I know, but even if you keep track of the timer, you will never know how long will it take for your opponents to die. Both inconsistent waves and consistent waves bring “randomness” to the table.

    That’s what I meant by a dynamic timing meta. Your enemy could bait, they could start turtling until the timer is in their favor, just to get the pushers to overextend. Offers another dynamic element in team play. This would be excellent in CTF as well.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    That’s what I meant by a dynamic timing meta. Your enemy could bait, they could start turtling until the timer is in their favor, just to get the pushers to overextend. Offers another dynamic element in team play. This would be excellent in CTF as well.

    I don’t want matches to be decided by respawn timer “skills”.



  • Obviously it wouldn’t all boil down to that. But it would help give you an edge here and there.



  • I really like this idea tho, they should definetly try this

    and for gods sake tehy have to remove that team damage modifier



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    Obviously it wouldn’t all boil down to that. But it would help give you an edge here and there.

    It could break or make fights just like good engagement. We don’t have any control over on time in which we die, even if both teams keep track of timer and they go forth and back delaying/trying to engage it would still boil to some amount of randomness due to lack of that control. And randomness is bad.

    Consistent wave timer still would be definitely better than the current one though, if TB wouldn’t agree to static timers (which is most likely because static timer would be horrible for PUBs).



  • @rumpelstiltskin:

    It could break or make fights just like good engagement. We don’t have any control over on time in which we die, even if both teams keep track of timer and they go forth and back delaying/trying to engage it would still boil to some amount of randomness due to lack of that control. And randomness is bad.

    Consistent wave timer still would be definitely better than the current one though, if TB wouldn’t agree to static timers (which is most likely because static timer would be horrible for PUBs).

    In pubs I still end up waiting at spawn and saying in teamchat, “wait at spawn and lets move as a big group if you care about the objective.” Usually ends up working and gains interest fairly quick most of the time. What ever happened to communication :(

    Hell, I remember even doing that for shield wall strats pushing towards the stoneshill king back in my noob days. Hilarity ensued. But it was a faith in humanity type of accomplishment that even in a chiv pub of all places you could organize teamwork strats like that.

    Hell if I’m king in a pub, sometimes i can get people to listen to me in teamchat and tell them to do simple stuff like “archers near me, melee funnel them at the doors.” I’m surprised that people actually listen more often than not, to stuff like that.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    In pubs I still end up waiting at spawn and saying in teamchat, “wait at spawn and lets move as a big group if you care about the objective.” Usually ends up working and gains interest fairly quick most of the time. What ever happened to communication :(

    Hell, I remember even doing that for shield wall strats pushing towards the stoneshill king back in my noob days. Hilarity ensued. But it was a faith in humanity type of accomplishment that even in a chiv pub of all places you could organize teamwork strats like that.

    Hell if I’m king in a pub, sometimes i can get people to listen to me in teamchat and tell them to do simple stuff like “archers near me, melee funnel them at the doors.” I’m surprised that people actually listen more often than not, to stuff like that.

    That’s why I always play defence in PUBs for sake of my sanity. It’s not fun to die in outnumbered rush over and over again while trying to go for the objective when rest of your team is playing TO like TDM.



  • always play TO like TDM, in any game lol

    its like #1 rule of pubs



  • @afiNity:

    The spawntime penalty for teamkilling makes things unpedictable anyway. I think the wave system should be completely disabled in scrims (means everyone would insta spawn). The wave system is something that public servers need cause it’s the only way to make people gather instead of fighting and dying alone all the time. Not sure if it would fuck with the balance though, but I think it would be worth a try.

    I’m not sure that you understand the dynamics of TO. The waves are needed because the defenders shouldn’t just spawn right next the the obj (think end of cart push darkforest) every time they die, while the attackers need to run all the way across the map and fight 5 spawns of enemies before getting to the obj… also if the attackers just keep spawning after you wipe them, there would be no penalty for rushing straight ahead and kamikaze-ing with the intent to just spawn straight back. The whole match would be a frantic shitstorm.



  • It depends on the objective I guess. But in case the respawn time is (for example) always 15 or even 20 seconds it also fucks with the balance cause in the current system you often get fast or even insta spawns… so getting wiped would be in most cases worse for the defenders objective than it is in the current system.
    Tl;dr doesn’t matter what you change, the balance between defender and attacker will not be the same.



  • Just make respawns 5 seconds for everyone, and if someone teamkills more than twice in a match then just have them auto-kicked. Or spawn as a peasant.