Balance Discussion



  • as a matter of fact, most of the faster weapons do the damage before the animation lands. I find myself clicking parry as they do their windup as the most effective way to block a fast weapon (but its hard to get used to blocking before the animation lands, because other weapons you have to do it that way)

    maybe look into the animations…

    even happening on 20ping server



  • speaking of animations, the one handed overhead animation is dumb.

    Most right handed people do an overhead swing starting from above the right shoulder. In game a overhead swing starts center-left.

    It’s a very small gripe, but it’s not very pretty to look at.



  • Gore, the reason you think 2handed swords do less damage than 1handed weapons is you’re slashing with them. Knights take a whopping 60% less damage from slash damage attacks - so yes, it takes a hell of a lot of slashes to kill one. The Messer does axe damage, so you can kill a knight with it using just two overhead slashes to the skull. The Sword of War and Longsword will 3 hit a knight with stabs.



  • Well first Jav

    Im no archer but i see that javs often have prolbems to keep throwing even bigger problems than xbows wich doesnt make much sense. So it really needs a bit too speed up maybe an animation where he grabs his back for the next jav.

    i agree to slygoat that the arrows are not really balanced aswell as bows/xbows in that case u should use em for.Shortbow-> anti archer and good for spam.longbow balance. warbow sniperbow.

    Coming to the 2handed axes clubs. the stab ability is completly overpowered instant hits give the attacker the most, biggest chance to spam the enemy with slower weapons. But overheads slashes are probably too slow with my vanguard 2handed sword i just outrange them or spam cap them aslong as im outa reach of their instant nonsense. if it stays like that the dmg HAS to be reduced drastically since its a blunt piece of nothing just pushing the enemy away. i find it still nearly impossible to kill with those weapons (besides the stab) wich is not really fair. i mean dagger>2haxes>2hmaces? well at the moment i would get 10x more kills with dagger than axes.

    The halberd of the vanguard is incredibly overpowerd since its often not used properly. its not that its range would really be the problem or the dmg, it gets stupidly hard to kill a “skilled” vanguard with halberd WHEN U are standing toe to toe right next to him as close as the models allow it. I mean hows that supposed to be? its speed is ridicoulus and its dmg output (when up close) doesnt make any sense at all it gets really harder the closer u come wich is not what i was expecting of a long stick with an axe ontop.

    the maa stab with swords is really overpowered when mixed with the glitchy slide dodge they use. A vanguard has nearly no health (===……) When getting stabbed once while the maa still happily jumps around after taking a 2handed stab right to the face but still he is the lower armoured class.
    it doesnt help much if the maa loses tons of stamina and i mean how realistic is that? being exhausted for jumping once. i really dont know what to do about it, maybe have the dodge slowed down so hes not warping all over the floor but its still his main skill to kill enemys.

    what i also find weird is that the vanguards are for their low armour rather slow. Maybe that trades off with its very fast long high dmging weapons but still he is the weakest against archers (that are behind enemy lines) i dont complain about archers or them to be high dmg or to easy to shoot, but for its pros the vanguard has way to much cons in my like just looking at health/movement evading ability. I wanna remind he dies in 2 hits being the second heaviest class in the game (even an archer takes 2 hits of a hte claymore)

    i just hope that this helps the game receive more of its balance
    gj tornbanner! :)



  • I’m happy to see that there isn’t a whole lot of complaining about the Brandistock, considering it has such a nice reach with good damage output. I still think its going to be hard to justify what isn’t balanced, simply because you have now way of comparing two like-skill players with the weapons in question. I think this game relies more on skill and timing than picking the best weapon. The only weapon I see used significantly more than others is the 2H sword, and I think the reason is because you can keep slashing with it and cover a lot of ground. But, there again, they can easily be countered by keeping distance, using ranged weapons, or parrying.



  • @Damien:

    I’m happy to see that there isn’t a whole lot of complaining about the Brandistock, considering it has such a nice reach with good damage output. I still think its going to be hard to justify what isn’t balanced, simply because you have now way of comparing two like-skill players with the weapons in question. I think this game relies more on skill and timing than picking the best weapon. The only weapon I see used significantly more than others is the 2H sword, and I think the reason is because you can keep slashing with it and cover a lot of ground. But, there again, they can easily be countered by keeping distance, using ranged weapons, or parrying.

    I only complain about the Brandistock when Able uses it (or I guess anyone else who employs his “tactic” but I haven’t seen any).

    Feint feint feint feint feint feint feint feint feint feint feint feint feint feint feint - animation never changes once.



  • How do you manage to make someones weapon hit me when it misses by a foot, and yet somehow let me weapon go through someones head with no effect. It should be technically impossible to screw it up that way.



  • As far as I have seen, nobody has complained about the brandistock because the halberd is better in almost every way. I think the only thing brandistock has on it is the one shot archer kills.



  • I like the Brandistock because of its reach with the “overhead” swing. The halberd is probably my 2nd favorite though.



  • @Sultanofswing:

    @Mr.Whippy:

    The two that posted above me.
    they get DESTROYED because they don’t think.
    I play MAA and fight 4 guys at the same time and WIN because I use MOVEMENT and don’t act retarded.

    And if ANYTHING I want the knight to strike a LITTLE faster. Because they strike TO slow. You guys are such babies I swear. Play the game and LEARN your limits. “You win some, you lose some”

    We are babies for wanting a balanced game and thus a quality product for our money?
    Also everyone bringing examples are stupid because examples are conditional and dont mean shit in terms of practically anything. The more exaggerated the examples are the more pointless.
    Making the knight strike faster lessens the difference between the knight and the classes that strike faster than him, thus decreasing variety and tactical neccessity.

    I am just gonna say this. You guys COMPLAIN so much about the smallest things because you want the class that YOU play often to be super ultra powerful. LEARN YOUR BARRIERS! That’s what it ALL boils down to in my opinion. You want to feel as if your character is a god. Name 10 things that are IMBALANCED in the game. And I will see if any are even valid.



  • To be honest I find the game is pretty well balanced at the moment.

    I’m level 25(ish) and have all the weapons except the thrusting dagger and the final bow/javelin and I haven’t found any weapons or classes that made me think “this is OP”. There are a few weapons that feel subpar though.

    Daggers seem fairly pointless as they are, maybe the thrusting dagger changes things but attack speed is only worth so much. You can chain one, maybe two hits together before your opponent can retaliate and if you screw it up you’ll probably lose >75% of your hp. Much better to go with the only marginally slower shortsword/cudgel so those few attacks actually count for something. Maybe the daggers should get a passive +50% backstab damage (MAA get +50%, Archers get +100%) to give it a niche.

    The shortsword and the cudgel both seem fine to me, and both have roles to fill. The saber feels useless, the extra range doesn’t compensate for the terrible damage. It just needs more damage really, possibly nerf the speed a little to stop it growing too powerful.

    Bows and Javelins are also fine, bows don’t get you many kills but they aren’t necessarily bad weapons. Crossbows are pretty terrible to be honest. You need to get fairly close to actually be accurate with ALL the ranged weapons, but while Javs and Bows are mobile enough to allow you to run or fight on short notice crossbows just get you killed. I think the Xbow could probably do with a tad more projectile speed so you can be accurate from further back.

    All the MAA primaries seem well balanced to me, though the broadsword appears to be the most popular. I feel like his dodging is also fine as it is at the moment, it can’t be spammed without draining your stamina rapidly and leaving you unable to block.

    Among the Vanguards primaries I think I’ve only found the billhook slightly weak. Though it’s a tiny difference and it’s probably just my play style.

    The knight weapons seem fine as well to be honest. I see most complaints aimed at the two warhammers though. They are strong weapons when played to their strengths but anyone that exploits their severe weaknesses can easily beat them with a more versatile weapon. The poleaxe and bearded axe are both a little underwhelming though, the poleaxe’s damage feels too low considering its mediocre reach and speed while the bearded axe just feels below average across the board.



  • @Mr.Whippy:

    I am just gonna say this. You guys COMPLAIN so much about the smallest things because you want the class that YOU play often to be super ultra powerful. LEARN YOUR BARRIERS! That’s what it ALL boils down to in my opinion. You want to feel as if your character is a god. Name 10 things that are IMBALANCED in the game. And I will see if any are even valid.

    Alot of the gameplay and fun of this game boils down to exactly the small details we are discussing here. Such as clunkyness in archers, it plays a huge role. I want classes to be somewhat unique (thats what you mean, not super ultra powerful god) but balanced, thats all there is.
    Technically with a game with multiple facets not directly comparable, everything is imbalanced. But what bothers me is notable imbalance.

    List of notably underpowered things:
    MAA on small maps with alot of (semi-competent+) players
    All archers (yes they are not a bad class but they are underpowered)
    Objective mode with alot of players (too hard for the attacking team)
    A bunch of weapons (fork, heavy crossbow etc)



  • All archers (yes they are not a bad class but they are underpowered)

    I couldn’t disagree more. I really believe archers in this game need to be a support class. I really think good archers are game changers in TO servers right now. If you make them any better, not only will archers be even more dominate in TO servers, they will be able to duel any other class with ease. Being the only ranged class in a melee centric game should come with a price.

    Objective mode with alot of players (too hard for the attacking team)
    MAA on small maps with alot of (semi-competent+) players

    We have to also watch when we are complaining about Class balance when it’s actually more about Map balance. In my opinion the current TO maps can’t properly support 32 man servers. You get more than 24 and you start to get into a stalemate.



  • Archers are a bit weak, but in a good place. The only problem I can see with them is the warbow. Aside from the damage, the projectile speed is too fast.

    With the speed of the projectile right now, it feels like the outcome of a confrontation is decided by how well the archer can aim, rather than how it is with other projectiles where the two players are feinting, predicting, dodging, and aiming.



  • @Jadarok:

    All archers (yes they are not a bad class but they are underpowered)

    I couldn’t disagree more. I really believe archers in this game need to be a support class. I really think good archers are game changers in TO servers right now. If you make them any better, not only will archers be even more dominate in TO servers, they will be able to duel any other class with ease. Being the only ranged class in a melee centric game should come with a price.

    @1gxjk49t:

    Objective mode with alot of players (too hard for the attacking team)
    MAA on small maps with alot of (semi-competent+) players

    We have to also watch when we are complaining about Class balance when it’s actually more about Map balance. In my opinion the current TO maps can’t properly support 32 man servers. You get more than 24 and you start to get into a stalemate.

    If they are game changers means someone extremely good is playing with them. But if he or she had practiced the time he or she practiced with archer with another class and played that class, they would be even more a game changer. And thats why archers are not balanced.

    But archers being game changing is not believable. There arent any videos on the internet with archers doing significantly well, guess why.

    In games like Tactical Ops, they have a knife practically only for humiliation kills. Although in newer titles like MW3 the knife is a viable weapon.

    In AoC ranged classes compromised 1/3 of the classes and were as viable as melee classes. Why should that change now? Archers in chivalry are a fully fledged class with all the different weapons and features like crouching, zooming and arrowcam. It does not seem like the devs intended it to be an afterthought, but if it is not one, why should it be a subpar class in terms of balance? I personally think Chivalry focuses on melee because thats how it historically was. Thats part of the uniqueness of this game. But a bow and arrow is as unique compared to a gun as a sword is compared to a gun. Therefore Chivalry is melee oriented for circumstantial reasons.

    Map balance would be when one map is significantly harder than another. This only applies to the MAA, So I think it’d be much easier to fix the MAA than fix all maps making them larger or whatever.

    @Zealot:

    how well the archer can aim, rather than how it is with other projectiles where the two players are feinting, predicting, dodging, and aiming.

    Until one of them gets gangbanged or backraped by another melee.
    Aiming as an archer is way harder on every level. And you have to compensate for projectile drop, which currently is steep along with projectile speed being slow as hell. Its a different type of challenge, deal with it 8-)



  • The issue with the “challenge” for the archer is that it is basically one sided. You can do some dodging, but the run speeds aren’t THAT fast and so as Zealot said, it’s all about how well the archer can aim. It’s not fun to be helpless in a video game, and a good archer renders a player helpless. A bad archer is just sword-food.

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, archers are in a good place now. Over-buffing a ranged unit in a melee game can only lead to frustration for 3/4 of the playable classes.



  • On average in most games vanguards contribute about 35% of the classes, knights 45%, archers 10% and MAA 10%. So ironically If archers were better they would also make the game les fun for less players according to you. Even if the archer is very good strafing is an effective tactic. Archer is a defensive class, if you need to go offensive do pick a class with a shield, sounds fair enough, very effective too. You are considering the potential skill cap of hitting everything 100% all the time, but thats not necessary. You need to consider 2 things - Average player skill and potential skill cap (the skill of the best archer player). I am sure even the latter would have enough trouble hitting strafing vanguards especially from farther range and at close range the archer either has to take out his secondary way ahead of time or there will be a chance of TK and less chance of non-TK when his teammates are protecting him.

    If you are feeling helpless against archers you are doing something wrong, you need to play better.



  • @Sultanofswing:

    @Zealot:

    how well the archer can aim, rather than how it is with other projectiles where the two players are feinting, predicting, dodging, and aiming.

    Until one of them gets gangbanged or backraped by another melee.
    Aiming as an archer is way harder on every level. And you have to compensate for projectile drop, which currently is steep along with projectile speed being slow as hell. Its a different type of challenge, deal with it 8-)

    So? I never said it was easy. What about once an archer actually gets good? Do you expect players to just sit back and die because the archer knows how to aim?



  • Not sure what youre saying there. Are you saying the skill ceiling for archer is lower? I disagree. If archers get buffed means potential skill ceiling for them will be lower, so archers will be used more and will be more useful for their team.



  • @Sultanofswing:

    Not sure what youre saying there. Are you saying the skill ceiling for archer is lower? I disagree. If archers get buffed means potential skill ceiling for them will be lower, so archers will be used more and will be more useful for their team.

    No, I am saying that if the projectile speed is too high, ranged combat will become one sided.

    With that said, the projectile speed for the warbow is too high.


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