Balance Discussion



  • Hi,

    I love this game, I love middle age period and all games related to it.

    Here are some suggestions to make the game more realistic, and to me, balance it because it isn’t really at the moment.

    • Make the deplacement slower for all classes in all directions, except forward. And way more slower backward (called sometimes “backpedal”).
    • Nerf the jump (a lot more for Knight, maybe not able to jump at all?).
    • Nerf the parry (with a weapon), so wielding a shield becomes really usefull : at the moment, using a shield is just usefull against projectiles, but not really more efficient than the parry with a weapon. So make the parry way more harder, and make it unable to parry more than 1 incoming attack.
    • Nerf the swings : make a swing stop to the first target touched, so it’s no more possible to deal damage to more than 1 target with a single swing.
    • Really change how the stamina system works. It seems playing the tutorial that stamina is important, but you realise in-game that there is no influence, you can jump all over the battleground, sprint, parry, block, and swing without any break.
      Stamina empty : character can only walk, damage decreased. Make it more important so it’s not possible anymore to do what’s said above without any penalty.

    I don’t think those things are really complicated.
    This is how I see the game at the moment, and I think those things done would balance the game between classes and would make this game way more realistic.

    Regards.



  • @Korghan:

    Hi,

    I love this game, I love middle age period and all games related to it.

    Here are some suggestions to make the game more realistic, and to me, balance it because it isn’t really at the moment.

    • Make the deplacement slower for all classes in all directions, except forward. And way more slower backward (called sometimes “backpedal”).
    • Nerf the jump (a lot more for Knight, maybe not able to jump at all?).
    • Nerf the parry (with a weapon), so wielding a shield becomes really usefull : at the moment, using a shield is just usefull against projectiles, but not really more efficient than the parry with a weapon. So make the parry way more harder, and make it unable to parry more than 1 incoming attack.
    • Nerf the swings : make a swing stop to the first target touched, so it’s no more possible to deal damage to more than 1 target with a single swing.
    • Really change how the stamina system works. It seems playing the tutorial that stamina is important, but you realise in-game that there is no influence, you can jump all over the battleground, sprint, parry, block, and swing without any break.
      Stamina empty : character can only walk, damage decreased. Make it more important so it’s not possible anymore to do what’s said above without any penalty.

    I don’t think those things are really complicated.
    This is how I see the game at the moment, and I think those things done would balance the game between classes and would make this game way more realistic.

    Regards.

    The stamina system works fine as is - it doesn’t need an overhaul. Characters only being able to walk when the stamina bar is empty would disallow for a lot of solo action, of the type I like to do, making it almost impossible to do anything on your own before being killed by several players coming in quick succession. The swing stopping with one target would suck - also, it’s not realistic, as a lot of hits (in my experience) are approx. 1 - 2 inches deep in the flesh, and the swing would have enough force to keep going - although, not on full body shots with the greatsword, say. Making the parry harder would make it extremely difficult to play the game - I think you might just be frustrated over it. Plus, shields are already very important - no need to emphasize it so the game becomes Chivalry: Shield Turtling. The jump seems realistic to me, except in the case of the Knight, but it’s balanced. The movement speed is also balance, except for the backwards, which should be slowed somewhat.



  • @Hadron:

    The stamina system works fine as is - it doesn’t need an overhaul. Characters only being able to walk when the stamina bar is empty would disallow for a lot of solo action, of the type I like to do, making it almost impossible to do anything on your own before being killed by several players coming in quick succession. The swing stopping with one target would suck - also, it’s not realistic, as a lot of hits (in my experience) are approx. 1 - 2 inches deep in the flesh, and the swing would have enough force to keep going - although, not on full body shots with the greatsword, say. Making the parry harder would make it extremely difficult to play the game - I think you might just be frustrated over it. Plus, shields are already very important - no need to emphasize it so the game becomes Chivalry: Shield Turtling. The jump seems realistic to me, except in the case of the Knight, but it’s balanced. The movement speed is also balance, except for the backwards, which should be slowed somewhat.

    I think you’re right about the walk thing, but stamina system isn’t working at all. It is just too ridiculous to see a Knight swing from left to right, and again, then jumping, and sprinting all around. And when you watch a battleground, everybody is running all around, it just looks so bad.

    For example, when performing a swing attack with a huge weapon, the character should be walking (it is ok to run if stabbing or overhead, but not swing).

    The swing to stop for one target wouldn’t suck at all, it would balance the game and nerf those vanguards swinging like idiots and running without any break and making dozens of kills. And no it’s not realistic, like this achievement : “Heads Together” Decapitate 2 opponents with 1 swing, it’s just stupid, it’s impossible to do such. It shouldn’t be possible to do it in the game too.

    I’m not frustrated about parry : an archer can parry 5 knights doing an overhead attack with one dagger? Am I frustrated or am I right to think this is stupid and totally unbalanced?
    Doing this balance would really improve the utility of shields which are just usefull to stop arrows, a knight with a 2-handed sword can defend as well as a knight with a shield/sword, this is ridiculous too…



  • There are a lot of things in the game that simply would not happen in real life, that’s why it’s a video game. I don’t think their goals it to make their combat as realistic as possible but one that balances out realism and the fun of playing a video game. If we were playing a medieval combat game that was 100% based upon the laws and principles of the real world I don’t think that would be all too fun. I hope the developers do not go down the route of drastically altering the mechanics of this game because quite frankly you guys have a working forumula and the game and the combat system is massively fun and addicting.



  • @Daiyuki:

    Yeah, but even if you’re quite a good shot and understand how to create distance, you’re just going to end up running away for most of the match as your teammates ignore the guys coming for you or cut you down with derpaswings as you wait for the right moment to shoot at close range. Team objective is many times more difficult for an archer as opposed to LTS, even with the same skill level. You’re just more effective in LTS because the battlefield is more predictable; people aren’t spawning behind you and your team isn’t running around everywhere doing whatever (at least in most cases lol).

    Well, that depends. I frequently go toe-to-toe with enemy melee classes and win, but that’s just because I’m generally better at melee than other pubs. Especially if I can soften them up with one or two arrows (which I generally can), then that makes a finishing cudgel strike all the more trivial.

    A lot of public players don’t expect an aggressive archer in melee. I exploit that.



  • @NikolaiLev:

    A lot of public players don’t expect an aggressive archer in melee. I exploit that.

    Especially one that use dagger than sword and stick, I find that they doesn’t use as much parry as when I use sword



  • I will say that the Halberd should be looked at. The jab speed timing seems way too fast, all in all it’s too much speed for the damage and reach it has.



  • @Master:

    I will say that the Halberd should be looked at. The jab speed timing seems way too fast, all in all it’s too much speed for the damage and reach it has.

    It’s getting nerfed.



  • Delfagro nailed a key part of the problem with halberd:

    Halberd stab windup animation is too hard to spot, making this long polearm very potent at
    facehugging distace, with all the other advantages of a polearm. This makes the halberd more
    powerful than intended i think. In a otherwise mostly fluid and organic combat system, the halberd
    just doesn’t feel right.

    I hope addressing that is part of the upcoming nerf.



  • I still personally believe that the game is pretty smoothed out. What I REALLY hate is when people fucking abuse the games mechanics. For example, Swinging the last tier sword for the Vanguard and looking away from your target to slow the attack even further, OR even better is when people do an overhead and INSTANTLY look down to the point where it becomes UNBLOCKABLE! But I mean that is impossible to fix to be fair. You would have to end up LOCKING the crosshair on someone and make them forcibly not be able to look away.



  • OH and the fact that if you have a throwing item you are pretty much FUCKED if someone blind sides you. That kind of is lame too. When you have throwing axes and you have to switch to a weapon it takes AGES to do it, and by the time you do you are already dead. Should be an option to parry with a throwing weapon and take 50% of the damage that was intended. I DEFINITELY would not mind that so I can actually get a kick off and get a weapon and get things going. EXCEPT for firepots cause you know…… fuck those guys right haha jk.



  • @Mr.Whippy:

    OH and the fact that if you have a throwing item you are pretty much FUCKED if someone blind sides you. That kind of is lame too. When you have throwing axes and you have to switch to a weapon it takes AGES to do it, and by the time you do you are already dead. Should be an option to parry with a throwing weapon and take 50% of the damage that was intended. I DEFINITELY would not mind that so I can actually get a kick off and get a weapon and get things going. EXCEPT for firepots cause you know…… fuck those guys right haha jk.

    If you’re getting blindsided you deserve it for not hearing them coming from a mile away.



  • @Mr.Whippy:

    I still personally believe that the game is pretty smoothed out. What I REALLY hate is when people fucking abuse the games mechanics. For example, Swinging the last tier sword for the Vanguard and looking away from your target to slow the attack even further, OR even better is when people do an overhead and INSTANTLY look down to the point where it becomes UNBLOCKABLE! But I mean that is impossible to fix to be fair. You would have to end up LOCKING the crosshair on someone and make them forcibly not be able to look away.

    You know that’s how the combat was designed from the get-go, right? It’s not abusing anything when that’s the whole point of the fluid mouse control system.



  • I came to the forums to specifically find a post about the halberd and give my 2 cents, so here it is.

    I think the halberd is way too fast. Vanguards seem to just swing and swing with no real penalty, and they get two swings in before I can block and counter with shorter, faster weapons. The halberd’s slash seems to hit early, too, I don’t know if anyone else feels this way.

    Something that may be added later but would be nice is lowering damage of polearm weapons the closer the enemy is to the player. Hitting someone with the wooden handle part wouldn’t exactly rip through armor.



  • @Magnianhk:

    I came to the forums to specifically find a post about the halberd and give my 2 cents, so here it is.

    I think the halberd is way too fast. Vanguards seem to just swing and swing with no real penalty, and they get two swings in before I can block and counter with shorter, faster weapons. The halberd’s slash seems to hit early, too, I don’t know if anyone else feels this way.

    Something that may be added later but would be nice is lowering damage of polearm weapons the closer the enemy is to the player. Hitting someone with the wooden handle part wouldn’t exactly rip through armor.

    Have max sensitivity on while using Hallberd and abuse it to hell, funny thing is I can go into a game, get by top as archer and really focus my game to do well, get a bunch of people screaming archers suck and are OP (they are not.) Then switch to vanguard with hallberd, run into same people, swing, swing and swing more and get 3times as many kills and completely abuse it to the point that last 5minutes of the game 90% of all people on the server is now vanguard with hallberd.

    But NOT a single comment is made about it :D



  • Norse sword was overnerfed. It’s pointless as it is right now since it’s a broadsword without the range. Either give the damage back or give it the speed it had. Nobody uses it anymore. I hope the same won’t happen to the halberd. Yes, it’s overpowered right now, but don’t make it identical to the first tier.



  • Fork needs a buff. As it is, it is pretty clearly inferior to the spear. Significantly shorter range, less damage, and the faster speed on its windup is offset by the slower speed of its release.



  • @ericjs:

    Fork needs a buff. As it is, it is pretty clearly inferior to the spear. Significantly shorter range, less damage, and the faster speed on its windup is offset by the slower speed of its release.

    I don’t know why this isn’t getting more attention. The Billhook was buffed up to competency, but the Fork isn’t getting the same treatment. It should be made faster, to emphasize its strength (which it lacks right now).

    @omg87:

    Norse sword was overnerfed. It’s pointless as it is right now since it’s a broadsword without the range. Either give the damage back or give it the speed it had. Nobody uses it anymore. I hope the same won’t happen to the halberd. Yes, it’s overpowered right now, but don’t make it identical to the first tier.

    This should be looked at as well. It was fairly overpowered, I agree, but there’s simply little reason to take the Norse Sword over the Broadsword. Again, its speed should be emphasized, like the Fork.

    I don’t know if the Halberd nerfs are in the right place. The Slash nerf doesn’t affect much, and the Stab windup was increased by .05. Is that really enough? It still does more damage than the Spear on the stab. I’d think, at most, it’d be as much.

    Halberd stab windup is .65 with 75 damage. Spear (overhead) stab windup is .70 with 70 damage (source). The Stab isn’t even the Halberd’s primary attack. Doesn’t anyone else see a problem with this?



  • @NikolaiLev:

    I don’t know if the Halberd nerfs are in the right place. The Slash nerf doesn’t affect much, and the Stab windup was increased by .05. Is that really enough? It still does more damage than the Spear on the stab. I’d think, at most, it’d be as much.

    Halberd stab windup is .65 with 75 damage. Spear (overhead) stab windup is .70 with 70 damage (source). The Stab isn’t even the Halberd’s primary attack. Doesn’t anyone else see a problem with this?

    The values should simply be given to spear and/or brandistock and the halberd stab should be much slower, at the very least on the recovery side, because it’s a lot heavier than a simple wooden spear.



  • More numbers:

    The spear overhead does 70 pierce damage on a .70/.40/.75 windup/release/recovery (combos unimportant) while its stab does 60 pierce damage at .60/.30/.725.

    Fork overhead: 60 pierce damage at .60/.40/.75
    Fork stab: 58 pierce damage at .50/.30/.725

    As you can see, aside from windup times their speeds are largely the same. I feel this is why the Fork is so overshadowed. Even a .025 difference on both times would help it out. Otherwise, the Fork is clearly reliant on the Stab attack.

    Just for funzies, let’s throw in the Halberd numbers.

    Halberd overhead: 85 swingblunt damage at .60/.60/.80 with a .75 combo time.
    Halberd stab: 75 pierce damage at .65/.50/.70

    I’m fine with the Halberd doing a little more stab damage, since it’s overall a heavier, meatier weapon. But it should be a fair bit slower, and certainly not faster in any way. And if I’m not mistaken, a longer release time allows for more mouse dragging, so it can be beneficial. I’m not terribly intimate with Chivalry animation mechanics, but at the very least two of these numbers are out of line.

    I want the Halberd to be a powerful weapon. I see it as a generalist weapon, much like the poleaxe. I’d say take the animation times .05 above the Spear, and then buff the stab damage by 5 or 10. The overhead seems fine as it is.

    By the way, the Bardiche is fast and powerful. I don’t know why people don’t use it more, other than the Halberd being clearly too good. The Billhook isn’t as fast as you’d think it’d be in comparison, however it also has a good stab (which the bardiche lacks).


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