Sloppy TO design



  • I love the new TO maps, the change is a breath of fresh air and thank you Tibbs.

    Um but spawn killing is a little sloppy design issue.

    Surely by now after what 1.5 years you could come up with a design document that defines the minimum requirements for a good map e.g. no spawn access, distance from spawn to objective etc.

    Just sayin, still I will take spawn kills over not having a new map. I feel we have just touched the top of team objective design - there is a lot more potential once they get control over the code (like their new design stuff)



  • is this for outpost and coldfornt?

    its pretty easy to prevent spawn killing though all you do is place the spawns between impassable ledges



  • Outpost has a nasty problem on second objective with being able to shoot the ballista into Agatha spawn.



  • Outpost has a similar problem with the second third objective; there’s no spawn protection at all for attackers. A couple of Mason vans can LMB around the Agatha spawn killing people as soon as they spawn. Also archers can stay in the foliage shooting players when they spawn.

    It’s somewhat balanced by the fact the spawn is so close to the objective but really it just not great level design.



  • Outpost has a nasty problem of being able to shoot the gate of the third objective (after the cart gets blocked) with the ballista, downing it in two hits. Then the shitty chieftan ai // tower take obj. It’s near impossible to defend the tents all the way through as well, so outpost is basically agatha victory every time. Consider revising the third and fourth objective to be harder (and not broken in some instances), and make the first objective more believable (who cares if they burn the tents? Make it like a yurt or something at least.)



  • To be fair, I’ve seen defense in on obj 1, 2 and 4 in Outpost a few times. I think obj 1 needs a shorter timer, obj 3 needs a more sturdy wall that doesn’t take damage from ballista, and the AI just need to be 1-2 players that spawn in a place that can’t be exited so they can’t just camp on top of the tower.



  • @SOC:

    To be fair, I’ve seen defense in on obj 1, 2 and 4 in Outpost a few times. I think obj 1 needs a shorter timer, obj 3 needs a more sturdy wall that doesn’t take damage from ballista, and the AI just need to be 1-2 players that spawn in a place that can’t be exited so they can’t just camp on top of the tower.

    Yeah I feel that would pretty much balance it out…



  • Why aren’t the chieftains the top 4 players. Seems silly to have them as dumb as AI that pretty much just stand around waiting to be infi-comboed.

    Also On Coldfront, it seems pretty odd design decisions that for the King Escape part, you pretty end up running right past a Mason spawn point. So as the king gets further away from their spawn point, they get closer to Mason. Making it exponentially harder for Agatha.
    Granted I haven’t played Cold Front that much, however each time I’ve seen the King Escape stage it is pretty much the same spot the king dies, if the king doesn’t get slaughtered earlier. Perhaps shift the King Escape to be more in the middle of the map, keeping care that the most obvious path for the King doesn’t scoot right past a Mason Spawn.

    Edit:

    I’ve seen the same question pop-up time and time again on Outpost.

    Why do we have to push Little Cart? What purpose does the cart serve? I assume it is ‘supplies’ to mount a very quick siege. It seems silly to need supplies though. It would be better if it was a Ram, and that ram was used to bash down the fence instead of people hitting it. Then it would make sense.



  • @Toll:

    I’ve seen the same question pop-up time and time again on Outpost.

    Why do we have to push Little Cart? What purpose does the cart serve? I assume it is ‘supplies’ to mount a very quick siege. It seems silly to need supplies though. It would be better if it was a Ram, and that ram was used to bash down the fence instead of people hitting it. Then it would make sense.

    Thats actually a very neat idea…



  • Actually I don’t mind the first objective, maybe add some more tents in there but generally I think it’s ok for the first objective to be a bit easy for attackers.

    Look at Hillside; the first objective is the hardest one for attackers, creating an odd balance where once that’s taken the rest is relatively easy. Stoneshill has a better balance where the first objective isn’t easy but generally is always doable.



  • @Toll:

    Also On Coldfront, it seems pretty odd design decisions that for the King Escape part, you pretty end up running right past a Mason spawn point. So as the king gets further away from their spawn point, they get closer to Mason. Making it exponentially harder for Agatha.
    Granted I haven’t played Cold Front that much, however each time I’ve seen the King Escape stage it is pretty much the same spot the king dies, if the king doesn’t get slaughtered earlier. Perhaps shift the King Escape to be more in the middle of the map, keeping care that the most obvious path for the King doesn’t scoot right past a Mason Spawn.

    There are intervals where the king travels that push up Agatha spawns and push back Mason spawns. I think he really needs faster health regen to support this more. It’s a really freaking cool objective, though. As we play it more and get more used to it, defense will start to come up with good ways to overcome it.

    @Toll:

    Why do we have to push Little Cart? What purpose does the cart serve? I assume it is ‘supplies’ to mount a very quick siege. It seems silly to need supplies though. It would be better if it was a Ram, and that ram was used to bash down the fence instead of people hitting it. Then it would make sense.

    If you listen to the guy shouting, Mason is planning an ambush for Agatha with the cart. Agatha doesn’t know there’s a barricade there.



  • Ohhhhh.

    /10oh



  • I wouldn’t call it sloppy design as thats a little degrading, i think the map is very nice, provided some awesome combat for the couple of times ive played it so far. But yeah defending the AI chieftans was pretty tough, we got destroyed there. Maybe call it an oversight, but not sloppy design. Torn banner is being super cool lately.



  • Its a bit sloppy and rushed when it comes to some objectives.

    The Chieftains don’t feel finished at all.



  • Am I the only one who thinks these new maps are rubbish? The forest looks unfinished and the Castle is too big for a 12 people team.


  • Global Moderator

    @Terje:

    Am I the only one who thinks these new maps are rubbish? The forest looks unfinished and the Castle is too big for a 12 people team.

    Probably because this game and its maps were designed for 32 players 16 aside.

    Coldfront last objective the most direct route to the ship goes right smack bang through the middle of the mason spawn almost which is why the king gets buttfucked as soon as he steps out the door. You actually have to go around a really long way and cut across to get to the boat without so much as a scratch. Also hope at least some of your team follows. I finally managed to get to the boat that way instead of ending up with the whole mason team around me with no team mates. I might of done it another time if my Internet hadn’t decided to cut my connection to the server. Everything is fine then everyone is running into walls and I can’t sprint and suddenly loading screen and its the next map with the everyone wondering why on earth I walked off the walls straight into the masons without fighting back. I thought the server what itself but it was just me.



  • @lemonater47:

    Probably because this game and its maps were designed for 32 players 16 aside.

    Source? inb4 because it says up to 32 players on steam page


  • Global Moderator

    @rumpelstiltskin:

    Source? inb4 because it says up to 32 players on steam page

    Yeah and if the maps were all small then it couldn’t be UP to 32 players now would it.



  • @lemonater47:

    Yeah and if the maps were all small then it couldn’t be UP to 32 players now would it.

    reminds me of the 50 player CoD4 servers

    constant air strikes and spawn camping


  • Global Moderator

    @zombojoe:

    reminds me of the 50 player CoD4 servers

    constant air strikes and spawn camping

    50 player FFA shipment. Literally an airstrike immediacy after the last one, average life expectancy 3 seconds, when the helicopter left or somehow was hit down there was sudden silence as everyone pulled out their clickers to call theirs in and at the end everyone had 200 kills.

    Those were the days.