Do you think the Vanguard Greatsword is OP and needs a nerf?



  • Make greatsword overheads identical to longsword, nerf the knockback, just a little bit so we can still effectively stab shields usrs and dance away. Greatsword stabs might feel a little bullshit, but they are really easy to counter once you get the decent with looking down and around to the attack at the last possible second. Plus the stab is pretty much the greatswords sig move when it’s too risky to feint and face hug. Plus the stab isn’t too bad because just about anything can interrupt it if you side step and lookdown. Overhead nerf, and knockback nerf, otherwise you will kill the weapon in general. People just bitch at the greatsword because they can’t stand the waterfalls and stabs, which is the fault of the player, no need to bitch at my baby.



  • Nerf OH windup and stab release a little.



  • I really would like to understand why people think it’s op. Is anyone here has a sheet that shows all the release times and windups? Does the gs actually has smaller windup times and faster realeases than it should? If the releases and windups are faster than zhei but slower than claymore and you still think they are too good then just get out.

    The knock back, why is that people think it’s that good? It’s sure not better than it’s on any other vanguard weapons. I really has never seen a knock back as and issue, and can close in easily with some shortest weapons after blocking a spear. I would say knock back should get a buff since now I never feel like it’s working for me or against me. I wont say it thought cause people will just go crazy.

    The dragging, yeah you can drag with gs but not as good as you can drag with zhei. Every time I pick up zhei I can drag it far easier than I can gs.

    The dmg is fine, the speed is fine. The lookdowns? You can do that with many weapons just as fine.

    The gs to me is like longer ls, and the only thing it has on ls is reach which it should have since it’s a vanguard weapon. The dmg is not really bigger cause you wont kill anything faster with gs than you can with ls. I can take a ls and fight a gs with no care for gs reach, which already gives me an advantage since I can take an extra hit. I do like to know how is that op for gs.

    The kiting? Anyone can do that, there lots of knights that do that. The kiting is not just vanguards special skill and you can kite better with other vanguard weapons.

    The stabs and overheads? Those need fixing for every weapon if you say that they need fixing on gs.

    If you wanna nerf a gs how about we fix claymore too? It’s desynch is very consistent. The broad sword, it was broken for a while now. What about all these weapons? Lets nerf ls too if you gonna nerf gs, anyone wants to see that? I sure don’t wanna see ls getting worse.

    If anyone can show a wind up times and release times and explain how they are op, do that. If you can’t then I don’t see why gs should get a nerf.



  • @Sciffer:

    I would say knock back should get a buff since now I never feel like it’s working for me or against me. I wont say it thought cause people will just go crazy.

    Yeah, you’re right. I’m about to go crazy after reading that.



  • I really would like to understand why people think it’s op.



  • Thank you for proving my point. I asked for actual proof that it is op and what I got here? Two replies that add nothing. If you got nothing to say, don’t just spout empty shit. Is anyone here actually can give a numbers that can show that gs is op? If this was a real life work situation, a request like this, to change something, would get laughed on. You claim something, give no info and when asked for prove you give none but make smartass posts. Thats very nice but will be disregarded. You got nothing meaningful to say, just say nothing.



  • @Sciffer:

    Thank you for proving my point. I asked for actual proof that it is op and what I got here? Two replies that add nothing. If you got nothing to say, don’t just spout empty shit. Is anyone here actually can give a numbers that can show that gs is op? If this was a real life work situation, a request like this, to change something, would get laughed on. You claim something, give no info and when asked for prove you give none but make smartass posts. Thats very nice but will be disregarded. You got nothing meaningful to say, just say nothing.

    What would you consider satisfactory proof that would also be possible to acquire?



  • I said in that post… The numbers from the spread sheet.



  • @Sciffer:

    gs is liek longer ls

    Dude.

    Compared to longsword, greatsword:

    • is faster
    • is longer
    • does more damage
    • has faster combo times
    • has way more draggable stabs
    • has way more knockback

    I can’t take rest of your post seriously if you think that GS is just “longer ls”.



  • @Sciffer:

    I said in that post… The numbers from the spread sheet.

    Here ya go: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AroL-S9AXRAndFI3cmM2dzZRX2dFUnNfRWRpcENLa1E#gid=77

    Most think the stab release is too long and the overhead windup is too short. The stab is tolerable, although still very strong for initiation, perhaps too strong. However, the overhead windup of .5 is just obscene and right now there is no reason to pick any other vanguard weapon in comp except for maybe situational picks like a halberd or brandistock.



  • haha…

    10/sillyforums



  • Ok, thanks.

    Here the info so everyone can see easily.
    Gs:–------Windup-----Combo-------Release--------Recovery
    Slash -------0.5---------0.65----------0.6------------0.8
    Overhead ----0.5--------0.65----------0.6------------0.85
    Stab --------0.7---------0.75---------0.45------------0.9

    Ls:---------Windup-----Combo-------Release--------Recovery
    Slash --------0.5--------0.675---------0.55-----------0.75
    Overhead ----0.525------0.75----------0.6------------0.75
    Stab ---------0.6--------0.7-----------0.4------------0.85

    From this, lets start with dmg. It does no do more dmg. If you read the numbers it does but tell me. Do you kill anything in less hits with gs than you do with ls? No you don’t, that throws that argument out of the window.

    It’s longer. It is vanguard weapon, knight has more hp.

    Lets look at numbers now to see if it’s really faster.
    On the wind up Gs has it, since the stab is longer and the number that ls has over gs on overhead is not as much as gs has on ls on stab. Yet, remember that this also means gs stab easier to flinch cause of it.

    On combo Gs has it on slash and overhead but ls has it on stab, stab is one of the better attacks and the number there is much better than what gs got on ls with slash and overhead. So gs has faster slash and overhead combos while ls has faster stab.

    Ls has it in release, the slash and stab is faster than gs. The initial hits with ls going to be faster but that also means a little less drags on slash and stab.

    The recovery, ls has it. You recover faster with it than gs.

    It all equals out between gs and ls. You can drag stab better with gs but it seem like you can drag overhead better with ls. Some gs combo times are better but ls got stab there. Ls got better recovery. I am not sure how is gs that much better from this info, they do seem balanced out.

    So the only thing thats right is that gs does has more reach and knock back. Does anyone even think that it should not? You can take knock back away and I wont care since it does nothing. There we got some numbers, can anyone argue with those? If they change the numbers of gs to exact numbers of ls, I wont mind that at all. Nice recovery times and better draggable overhead while still draggable stab.



  • @Sciffer:

    From this, lets start with dmg. Do you kill anything in less hits with gs than you do with ls? No you don’t, that throws that argument out of the window.

    I love GS and have used it for hundreds of hours and I admit its a broken weapon,

    “That throws that argument out of the window”



  • No dude, are you serious? Tell me what class can you kill with gs that ls can’t kill in same amount of hits? Go look at the info I posted and try to find whats so broken about it. Saying something is broken none stop and giving no info to prove it, thats real nice.



  • @Sciffer:

    No dude, are you serious? Tell me what class can you kill with gs that ls can’t kill in same amount of hits? Go look at the info I posted and try to find whats so broken about it. Saying something is broken none stop and giving no info to prove it, thats real nice.

    Archer.
    1 Greatsword horizontal slash to the head can 1-hit kill an Archer, the Longsword can only do this with it’s overhead.
    It takes 2 Greatsword overheads to a Vanguard’s torso to kill him, 3 with the Longsword.
    After hitting a Man at Arms to the head with an overhead, you can finish him with a fully charged kick. You can’t do this after hitting him once with the Longsword.

    I’m assuming different attacks also count. If not, the overheads on each weapon have the same HTK, but thank god the world of Chiv offers different attacks as well.



  • The greatsword would be absolutely fine if the overhead windup was increased to .6.

    The low windup, coupled with the tracers of the greatsword in the overhead release gives it incredible speed with overhead look downs.
    This is coupled with its excellent reach and damage and drag-ability of its other attacks. It effectively makes the Greatsword have no draw backs.

    Those numbers that have been used don’t show the full picture, the animation and the tracers themselves have considerable impact.

    To bring the greatsword in line with the other vanguard weapons it should have its overhead windup time increased, nothing more.



  • @Sciffer:

    No dude, are you serious? Tell me what class can you kill with gs that ls can’t kill in same amount of hits? Go look at the info I posted and try to find whats so broken about it. Saying something is broken none stop and giving no info to prove it, thats real nice.

    You can more reliably 2 shot a van and 3 shot a knight. Arguing that the ls’s dps is on par with the gs is absurd.



  • Sciffer, please do this:

    1. Play one round with longsword.
    2. Play one round with greatsword.
    3. Post your experiences.

    Thanks.



  • @Sciffer:

    From this, lets start with dmg. It does no do more dmg. If you read the numbers it does but tell me. Do you kill anything in less hits with gs than you do with ls? No you don’t, that throws that argument out of the window.

    Can’t argue with that.



  • @Sciffer:

    It does no do more dmg. If you read the numbers it does but tell me. Do you kill anything in less hits with gs than you do with ls? No you don’t, that throws that argument out of the window.

    Window = blown