New maps - undefendable



  • A little rant thread. The new maps are very unbalanced against defenders and so far I’ve rarely seen them win (if the map actually didn’t get vote switched first). I’m not really good with names and don’t exactly remember theirs so I’m just gonna call them “beach assault” and “tent burning” map.

    Beach Assault
    Obj 1: Assault the beach

    This is pretty much the only place where the defenders have a chance to win, just stack up in one of the houses and don’t let anyone in. Frankly it’s harder than it sounds like with the beach 5 fps.
    **Obj 2: Get through the gate
    **Now this is the “objective impossible to defend” number one. Yeah there’s some fun with the siege tower and capturing the gatehouse but why bother when all you have to do is keep suicide running at the gate and chop it down bit by bit. The fact that the defenders have it so hard to protect the gate itself, because attackers don’t only have easier access, but also ballistae and catapults, make this objective feel like it is only supposed to slow the attackers down…… except the next objective always resets the timer.
    **Obj 3: King escape
    **Ok let’s just think for a while and recall how much pain it is to survive as a king on citadel. And now you actually how to push through, towards the enemy spawn, and then somewhere beyond (I’ve never actually seen how it looks there). I mean seriously…. towards enemy spawn, away from the spawn of your teammates?

    **Tent burning map
    Obj 1: Burn some tents
    **Again this the only objective where defenders have a chance to stop the attackers for good. You just have to defend the torches. But as it goes, eventually someone outsmarts you and burns the last tent….**Obj 2: Push the cart
    **Yes, just like darkforest, the further the cart is the harder it is to push and easier to stop the push. Except the whole ride is only half as long as one part of the dark forest one. So most of the time the attackers just steamroll through. I suppose a well coordinated team could defend the cart near the end of the ride but pubbers have no chance.
    **Obj 3: Destroy the barricade
    **Right…. so attackers spawn right next to it and defenders across the map. Again this objective feels only like it is supposed to slow the attackers a bit but nothing more.
    **Obj 4: Kill the chieftains OR capture the belltower
    **OR? Why the heck OR? The defenders are supposed to defend a stinking AI chieftains that keep taunting while being attacked, remain stationary even though the just got blown up by a catapult and suicide if they find themselves somewhere unpathable (for them). But at the same time they have to defend a belltower from being captured. Now if it was AND then it would be possible, the belltower is fairly defendable and the chieftains would again work only as a distraction. But defending the chieftains is utterly impossible. Also, attackers have catapult and a big marker “SHOOT HERE”…. So yeah…

    Also when we’re at it, would someone mind explaining what the hell is that map about? Why are we burning their tents, why do we push this western-movie-like cart and what is inside, what the hell happens to it near the barricade and why is the belltower so important? I have no clue…



  • Very well written, I would love to see what everyone else thinks…



  • new maps feel like betas



  • h wuuuuuuut



  • Beach Assault Obj 3 king escape - I’m pretty sure when the king moves outside, agatha players are spawned outside as well. The spawn locations are dynamic.

    But yeah, The last objective for Outpost is impossible to defend.



  • 2nd Objective for Coldfront I actually like a lot. The trick is to sally out (and how often do you even get to SAY that) and destroy the siege weapons, which unlike every other map is an effect that lasts a good long time. If you’re smart you can even do it on the retreat from the first objective. Without them masons have a hard time breaking the gate if you’re quick with the oil.

    I just this evening had a successful defence of this objective and it was a great old time full of variety: Scurrying about the ramparts, shooting ballistae, running across the lowering bridge to pour oil, fighting for the crank and just generally being a massive nuisance. I can’t think of another map that gives you so much to do in such a short time. It ended with a glorious leap off the ramparts onto some attackers at the gate, duelling with their commander (a rank I both made up and assigned) until we both drowned in boiling oil as the clock ran out.

    I would like to see the damage small arms do to the gate reduced or even removed. It is a bloody great drawbridge, someone hacking it down with a hatchet seems unlikely. It would also make going for the crank more appealing…. but then if they can’t smash it then why oil? Forget I said anything.



  • I’ve successfully defended on both maps a number of times on every objective except Cold Front’s king and Outpost’s barricade. It’s pretty much the same as other maps: control/camp the vital points and attacking won’t win. I’m not saying they need more polish, but we do need more time to truly determine how hard it is to defend.



  • Would be a lot easier to play on if I didn’t get fukin 40-60 fps on coldfront…



  • @McLumberjack:

    2nd Objective for Coldfront I actually like a lot. The trick is to sally out (and how often do you even get to SAY that) and destroy the siege weapons, which unlike every other map is an effect that lasts a good long time. If you’re smart you can even do it on the retreat from the first objective. Without them masons have a hard time breaking the gate if you’re quick with the oil.

    I just this evening had a successful defence of this objective and it was a great old time full of variety: Scurrying about the ramparts, shooting ballistae, running across the lowering bridge to pour oil, fighting for the crank and just generally being a massive nuisance. I can’t think of another map that gives you so much to do in such a short time. It ended with a glorious leap off the ramparts onto some attackers at the gate, duelling with their commander (a rank I both made up and assigned) until we both drowned in boiling oil as the clock ran out.

    I would like to see the damage small arms do to the gate reduced or even removed. It is a bloody great drawbridge, someone hacking it down with a hatchet seems unlikely. It would also make going for the crank more appealing…. but then if they can’t smash it then why oil? Forget I said anything.

    Sir, once again, I admire you and bow with respect.
    I didn’t know you could destroy the siege weapons. I knew you could destroy the ballistae during the first objective but didn’t realise you could do so for the second as well. So yes, removing the ability to destroy the gate with hand weapons would make this objective a lot more reasonable.

    @Sinbe:

    Beach Assault Obj 3 king escape - I’m pretty sure when the king moves outside, agatha players are spawned outside as well. The spawn locations are dynamic.

    Yes, they do change but it affects little. It only actually makes it easier for mason to stop the king should he sneak past the initial defence. With all players just pouring in from all sides, it’s hard to keep healthy as the king. And the regen takes ages and always someone slips past the defenders and ruins twenty seconds of standing still and regenerating. And oil pots…. seriously after so long they still have no damage reduction against kings?
    @Terminally:

    Would be a lot easier to play on if I didn’t get fukin 40-60 fps on coldfront…

    Sir you are lucky, I gotta check but I get 30 fps at most and it feels even less when at the beach. Talk about dealing with groundsniffers and brandistocks, that thing already got barely 7 frames long wind up and now every other frame is skipped so yeah……



  • your strat for the beach attack is all wrong for the 2nd objective. All you have to do is turn the catapult around, then you take out all of the ballistas, because once you destroy them they are unusable for the rest of the time because they don’t regenerate. Simple… you wait for the begining of the 3rd click to hit all of them. Then you start hitting the door with catapult rocks which do like… 1/10 or so damage each time, in combination with the ballistas… you’ll be in in under 2 minutes flat.

    For outpost, attack is easy as long as you don’t fuck up the first objective somehow. The cart push is easy just keep running forward it will just eventually go. The barricade is a joke since you spawn like 20 feet from it, no challenge there. Final objective also easy because there are 3 door entrances, plus the 4 ladders going over to get in… then you have choice of 2 separate objectives which can be attacked all at once so that either the chieftans or the capture point will be over in a matter of like 5 min or less.



  • First objective for beach attack is easy to defend, thats about it.

    On outpost, 3rd objective is easy to attack, due to close spawns, but if defenders get the advantage, you can easily spawn camp.



  • Making it that Agatha has to capture the townhall (or belltower or whatever is it) AND kill the chieftains would help a lot. Or making the chieftains player controlled. Also the barricade destruction is stupid, spawning in the middle of enemy team is no fun, just make it so you have to push the cart all the way to that cave or something.

    For coldfront, improving king health regen and resistance to firepots would help. Or instead, the objective could be remade and Agatha would have to push a cart…… full of uhhh… relics? Also the beach assault, remove all those random barbarians and catapult shots, sure are cool and stuff but they kill the framerate a lot.



  • It’s new and I don’t know what to do, it must be unbeatable.
    Experienced pros are so funny when they have to face something new…
    welcome to my world, the whole game is unbeatable XD



  • Killing the chiefs (chieves?*) seems a bit ignoble an objective for the boys in blue. A hostage rescue would be better, if the AI would work. It’d make better use of all the map area, give Agatha reason to break down the gate and walls to open up new escape paths.

    *I know it’s underlined by that wiggly red line, but I still think it could be chieves.



  • @McLumberjack:

    *I know it’s underlined by that wiggly red line, but I still think it could be chieves.

    Chives?



  • Chiefs should have disabled TK so that we can swing through them will mauls and 2-handed swords and annihilate anyone who tries to touch them.



  • @Albatross8:

    Chiefs should have disabled TK so that we can swing through them will mauls and 2-handed swords and annihilate anyone who tries to touch them.

    There are actually servers setup like that, sure they are empty (duh) but it was always fun to protect the king by lmb spamming through your entire team lol…


  • Mod

    I’m pretty sure they’re chefs and the agathian’s (being the soft vegans they are) didn’t appreciate the slaughter of innocent cattle and other livestock used in their dishes.



  • I didn’t even give coldfront a chance, I spent 2 minutes and the lag was so horrible on lowest settings it felt like I was playing on a 12 year old computer. But hey, 35-50 fps is playable according to torn banner!

    Well imo it is not playable if its inconsistent and it goes up and down like a motherf*cker also this game does feel 10000000 times more laggy at 60 fps than any other game I can recall, The input feels horribly laggy and the screen tears alot… At 120 fps it feels less smooth than playing Dark Souls 2 @ 60fps.



  • @chivalryinterested:

    It’s new and I don’t know what to do, it must be unbeatable.
    Experienced pros are so funny when they have to face something new…
    welcome to my world, the whole game is unbeatable XD

    All the TO maps are undefendable except for Stoneshill and Darkforest. Even then, the offense probably has a slight advantage. It’s nothing new. It’s incredibly difficult to make a perfectly balanced map so it’s no surprise that the new maps are undefendable.