Two ideas you may have already considered.



  • First off:
    If any of you have played Mount and Blade Warband, you will understand first hand what I’m on to in my first point. That is basically challenging the decision to put the player support to 64 ( At least I think its around 40 right?). I was part of a push that managed to get some large servers running up to 250 players on warband, and it is amazing. The fun cannot be rivalled anywhere, teamplay is everywhere with those numbers, and it really and genuinely puts the players into the heart of the titanic clashes every player hopes for when he picks up a game like this. I would suggest you head over there and try it for yourself :)

    Secondly:
    Have you thought about adding naval maps? Each team on its own ship/s? It could add to gameplay quite a lot, especially with your style.

    Well thats it for now, please discuss or ask questions :)

    EDIT: Just realised this was the wrong place to post this, sorry mister forum admin :(



  • Large scale battles only work for very open maps. In AoC, maps like Helm’s Deep, Battleground, Valley, etc. were great with a lot of players, but maps like Siege, Westerlyn, and especially Tournament and Tombs were pretty awful with too many. There’s also the server load to consider. I’m sure it can be done and done well, but again only on certain maps that are designed for large scale battles.

    The idea of naval battles is very interesting. I had an idea for an AoC map that centered around a Mason attack at sea on an Agathian vessel, but it didn’t focus so much on naval combat so much as boarding and then fighting normally (with the constant risk of being knocked off the ship and drowning).



  • Im quite sure that the unreal mod kit allows devs to make something like this but it would require so much coding and testing that it would push the release back a year or more.



  • Actually in my opinion naval battles in a melee based game without an emphasis on boarding actions is rather silly :)

    Well as I said you should check out the warband battle servers, it would just be making maps suited to player numbers, I’m sure it would be a simple matter of creating larger more open maps for the bigger servers, as well as catering for those who prefer smaller player numbers on a more detailed small map :). Its best to cater for all after all.

    I wonder if UDK supports multi threading for servers… epic clashes of thousands of players anyone? (Note that that wasn’t serious as I highly doubt it will be a viable option for a very very long time :p)



  • As far as huge battles are concerned, I’m against them. The best part of AoC is murdering your friends with throwing axes, and it can be harder to find them when there are an extra couple hundred players to get lost in. Also, I can’t see it being anything other than a nightmare to organize any serious match between armies that large. Thirdly, in a small game, you can tailor your approach to counter the play-styles of the opposing team; you lose that ability in a larger field.

    Naval battles would be wicked.



  • @Biteme:

    I wonder if UDK supports multi threading for servers…

    Yes, it does ;)



  • @Biteme:

    First off:
    teamplay is everywhere with those numbers

    If you have a couple hundred guys on a team and try making them work together, you just can’t. It would only work in a real life scenario where you would have ranks and be able to convey a message to people when needed, but you can’t using any type of chat system with any efficiency. The only time real teamwork comes into play is when there’s smaller numbers so it actually matters when you work together with someone in a fight, instead of having a couple hundred at your back to just throw bodies at a position until you take it over. Using teamwork is about making a plan and following it effectively while using your mean properly and not just having so much you just throw them at a position like you see in the battle servers of warband.



  • No offence guys, but your 100% wrong :)

    Every single week, there is a 250 player line battle in the napoleonic mod for warband Mount and musket Battalion, players form up into regiments, with a chain of command, work together, and fight epic battles. They use Teamspeak 3 of course, but I’m sure UDK supports VOIP software.

    Even in the normal game play large numbers still means good teamwork, especially with VoIP, maybe area based? Multiple objectives and bigger maps makes for incredible gameplay.

    I’m not saying it should be exclusively like this, you should have availability for all types, but it should definitely be considered.



  • Isn’t the only objective in warband to kill the other team? You can’t say a game has teamwork if all you do is kill shit, in AoC you had to work together to capture things, or kill certain objectives, not necessarily only other players. If the only object is that than not having “teamwork” in a 250 player server is hard to come by, teamwork in AoC is much more than just trying to kill people with 124 other players on your team, but working with your teammates to capture a position, or defend a position.



  • Ah my mistake I thought in real life when opposing forces joined they used teamwork to kill each other…

    Just because you only had to kill the other team does not make for less teamplay. Also, I never said teamplay was the result if such large numbers, I only said such large numbers was more fun, and that teamplay was still possible :) tbh large numbers added to chivalries objective based gamepkay? That sounds like an epic mix.



  • @Biteme:

    No offence guys, but your 100% wrong :)

    Every single week, there is a 250 player line battle in the napoleonic mod for warband Mount and musket Battalion, players form up into regiments, with a chain of command, work together, and fight epic battles. They use Teamspeak 3 of course, but I’m sure UDK supports VOIP software.

    Even in the normal game play large numbers still means good teamwork, especially with VoIP, maybe area based? Multiple objectives and bigger maps makes for incredible gameplay.

    I’m not saying it should be exclusively like this, you should have availability for all types, but it should definitely be considered.

    Playing with randoms over VOIP is like training your dog. They might do what you want, Or it’ll just shit on your carpets.



  • I will repeat myself since you are frustratingly not getting it.

    This. Has. Worked. Before.

    If you still don’t get it. Buy warband, install mm mod, and turn up to any of the events or normal play while on teamspeak, you will find groups of players organised into their clans (regiments) doing organised play, with public players usually there too.
    The events fill up the server, and even the public one is fun, with the public players mixing with clan ones for fun.

    You really shouldn’t dismiss something you have no experience of. VOIP, coupled with clear in game objectives, maybe a command system, and massive servers with organised teamplay is the norm.



  • @Biteme:

    First off:
    teamplay is everywhere with those numbers

    The way warband is designed, sure, but i don’t see the enjoyment of that. The way AoC was designed, and the was CMW is being designed this won’t work. Just because you’ve managed to work this idea into a game before, doesn’t mean you can do it to another game with a completely different combat system, community, and play style.

    What I’m trying to say to you is that out of my 340 hours of play AoC, and you 0.8 hours of playing AoC, I’m pretty sure i understand the game, players, and combat mechanics a bit more than you.

    @Biteme:

    First off:
    This. Has. Worked. Before.

    This doesn’t mean it’ll work in this game. Other than the fact you can easily get trolls in the server, or just have people not listen out of the 250 people in the server. The only “public” that would be into that would be the regulars in those servers, and that already know what’s going on.



  • It does not mean it would definitely work, how ever it doesn’t mean it would definitely not work either.
    Not even giving it a good think over just because basically you say so is a terrible reason :)

    As for the combat system, I do not see how it would effect the larger play at all. More players increases the experience, giving it an epic feel.
    Games on pc are getting larger, as well as keeping the small servers, basically they are providing both, this is a good tactic.



  • How am i not giving it a good think over? i still scrim in the game. The way maps are designed are for a small number of people.
    Just because it has worked in another game, thinking it would work in this one is a terrible idea.
    The way the combat system is made is for you to fight only a few opponents at a time, since youhave a limited amount of stamina, and not just keep going and going like WB.



  • One of AoC’s strengths was the intricate design of the maps. Maps in the style of Siege or Monastery wouldn’t function with so many players. Additionally, smaller games put more pressure on individual players, as a single kill can mean the difference between victory and defeat; as you add players, each individual becomes less important to the team effort. When I’m stuck on a bad team of 10 players, I’m frustrated. When I’m stuck on a bad team of 100, I’m slitting my wrists.



  • @Mike:

    One of AoC’s strengths was the intricate design of the maps. Maps in the style of Siege or Monastery wouldn’t function with so many players. Additionally, smaller games put more pressure on individual players, as a single kill can mean the difference between victory and defeat; as you add players, each individual becomes less important to the team effort. When I’m stuck on a bad team of 10 players, I’m frustrated. When I’m stuck on a bad team of 100, I’m slitting my wrists.

    THIS DAMN THIS



  • All you have to do is make the maps larger, that takes effort yes, but is rewarding.
    You are not giving it a think through at all or else you wouldn’t immediately be saying no and would be asking questions on how it would cope with such and such, or how it would work around chivalries such and such…

    Admittedly it is much harder to make a difference as a single player in teams so large, but to be honest that is the beauty of it, with numbers increasing the balancing of teams also increases, you are less likely to have massive gaps in skill level in a 50V50 or 100V100 fight than in a 10v10 or 20v20…
    I actually think Chivalries stamina system would bring even greater depth to the large battles than warband could, it would mean a more intense, tactical, fight, with less attack spamming and more jostling for advantage, keeping men in reserve for a smart push into the enemies flank etc would mean a lot more.
    You would have to be blind not to notice the possibilities there, what I’m trying to say is, in theory chivalry offers a bettle large player numbers multiplayer experience than warband does, or else I wouldn’t mention it :).



  • I agree with the previous remarks, it’s not the game-style of AOC at all to be played in big battle. It is already hard too understand something when you are playing a true 16vs16 players in AOC.
    From this point, having 32vs32 game (64 players is planned in CMW) will already make you happy if you want them absolutely. Personally i don’t think that 32vs32 will be a lot played anyway, when you will play fully the game, one way or another you will understand why it’s not adapted to this game.
    Finally, M&B warband is ugly as hell and easily runs 100vs100 games, don’t imagine it one second with the UE3’s engine, it’s not the same level of competition in term of power needed.



  • Hate to kill the discussion you guys were having but Unreal Engine 3’s officially supports up to 64 players. We plan on keeping the max player limit between 32-64.

    Large scale battles are not out the picture however. IF we ever get access to Unreal’s source code we could revamp the networking code a bit to allow us to be able to support more players. But for now, I wouldn’t count on seeing 100v100 battles. Sorry :(


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