Wall of text about balance ideas

  • Hello folks, just wanted to make a wall of text with a lot of balance change suggestions I have been carrying around in my mind, and rather than just making a seperate thread for each idea, I decided to put them all here together.

    First of all I want ot start talking about the quick kick, which I strongly suggest is a broken mechanic in the game. It is a utility to kite your opponent, but it also has the capability to flinch and push away an opponent in the middle of something, which I think is kinda weird, and above all, each kick actually drains victims stamina upon hit, so the kick user doesn’t really lose that much in the end.

    Let me bring up an example where if a Knight with Grandmace fights versus a Knight with Longsword.

    1. The Grandmace Knight quick kicks Longsword Knight. It result with Grandmace Knight losing 25 stamina, and Longsword Knight losing 15.
    2. But since the kick recovery is shorter than the flinch recovery after being kicked. The Grandmace Knight will win the initative for next move, and in this case. The Grandmace Knight decides to throw in an overhead towards the Longsword Knight who can NOT flinch, or evade in time because being kicked completely stops your momentum, and he is left with no other choice than to parry the overhead.

    The Grandmace’s parry drain with an overhead attack is: 31,
    And the Longsword parry negation is: 17,

    And by the way the stamina cost for parrying an attack is calculated, it is parry drain minus parry negation equals stamina cost, so in this case it is this: 31 - 17 = 14

    And now the scenario is done, what happens beyond that will vary from each player, but let us calculate how much stamina during that scenario, was used by the Grandmace Knight, and Longsword Knight.

    1. Grandmace Knight did a quick kick which costed him 25 stamina (75 stamina left)
    2. Longsword Knight was kicked and lost 15 stamina (85 stamina left)
    3. Grandmace Knight performs an overhead, which he does not miss. No stamina penalty (75 stamina left)
    4. Longsword Knight parries the overhead, since there is no other option, he loses 15 stamina for parrying the Grandmace Overhead, which costs him 14. (71 stamina left)

    The Grandmace Knight has 75 stamina left, and Longsword knight has 71 stamina left.
    And thank god, it was only 4 stamina difference, only because Longsword is the third highest parry negation in the game, so it would be even worse with any other weapon! Is this fair?

    Also, quick kicks are very often used when another experienced player hear that their opponent is breathing for air, because that means that their opponent is below 30 stamina, and by perform a kick, they will be left with 15, which they could choose to kick again from. but the kick stamina drain is very often used to completely drain the opponent for all their stamina once they hear the breathing, which I also think is a very stupid thing.

    Stamina drain on kick needs to go, and as a trade off. decrease the stamina required to perform kicks by atleast five.
    So it would cost 15 for Man-at Arms, and 20 for the rest.

    Okay, so I’ve been through the stamina part now, but there is more.

    I think the difference between Quick Kick and Heavy Kick is pretty bad, and one way I see that could possibly help out making a difference is that. By making Quick Kicks unable to flinch/cancel their opponent during Release state, while leaving that exclusively for Heavy Kicks may contribute to make Heavy Kick more useful, and it would nerf the Quick Kick. Now you may wonder, why not just remove it altogether? why keep flinching for release state? Because I like the idea that the Heavy Kick could be a only counter versus delayed attacks, cause if you are up against a delayed attack. The time it takes for the weapon to hit you during release is long enough for you to wind up your Heavy Kick and flinch him, with Quick Kick it is too easy to flinch someone. So yeah, a good counter for delayed attacks. Quick Kick should only be able to flinch during windup.

    I also suggest that Kicks should be harder to land, they currenty have a rotation speed capacity equal to the weapon attack (And parries aswell) cause they all rely on the value that is coded in the current weapon you hold. For example, you can drag a kick further with a Broad Dagger that has 75 000 Horizontal rotation speed capacity, rather than a Maul which has only 50 000.

    More additional stuff that I think would be cool if they implanted with kick would be that, if you miss your kick. You will have a long recovery that allows your opponent to punish you for your mistakes, BUT. if you land a succesful kick, you should be able to either combo or parry out of it, which could be a cool way of gaining initative much faster when you get it the more fair way.

    Only got around with kicks so far, there is more to come

  • Second of all. I want to start talking about possible tweaks and features that will determ your Transition Windup, or as much know it as “Combo windup”

    I think it could be a good idea that, IF you miss an attack. Your combo will take slightly longer to perform. We’re talking about .1 or .15 guys, nothing big.

    Why I suggest this, is because this will punish people for just attacking, missing their strikes and just keep spamming comboes ontop of that. And it will also prevent a common tactic with Cudgel & Daggers where you would miss your opponent on purpose, but because of your short combo windup, you are able to strike him while he is still stuck in parry recovery after you fooled him to parry with the missed attack.

    Also another feature I think should be considered in the game is ‘Defensive Recovery’ which can be gained by successfully striking your opponent with an attack where you let it transition from Release state to Recovery state, and what this defensive recovery will contribute to, is to cut off perhaps .1 or .2 seconds off your current recovery, but the difference between defensive recovery and regular recovery is that. You can only perform a parry during the defensive recovery, while you still have to wait out the original recovery before you may perform another action. This will allow the strike & wait attack style, and allow players to play more defensively without needing to spam combo to perhaps pull off a Combo Feint to Parry manouver.

  • Example how the Defensive Recovery should work with, let’s say Longsword.
    Longsword has a current recovery time of .75, and by performing a successfull strike on your opponent, and going into recovery. You will be able to perform a parry after .55 (If it reduces it by .2) but you will be only able to attack again after your original .75 recovery.

    Maybe this should differ from 1H and 2H, since One-handers have a generally lower recovery time, and therefore maybe the Defensive Recovery should be -0.1 of the 1H’s recovery time, and -0.2 for 2H’s to make it a bit fair.

    I never liked the idea about making the recovery in general faster if you striked your opponent, cause imagine with weapons that DO already have fast recovery, for example Shortsword with .4 seconds, imagine the stab combinations it could perform if recovery was reduced based upon performing successfull attacks.

  • Very interesting tbh. Would it not be easier to make a mod and jump on kickstarter I’ll back you.

  • lol the kick playstyle is how i win all my duels when i play maul

    kicked into maul overhead rip your stamina

    its 100% balanced pls dont nerf

  • Kicks are really fucking irritating right now. Why do they drain the target’s stamina? It’s dumb.

  • why does blocking an arrow with your shield drain stamina?

    who can even answer these questions

  • @zombojoe:

    why does blocking an arrow with your shield drain stamina?

    who can even answer these questions

    Arrows weigh 10KGs obviously.

  • @zombojoe:

    why does blocking an arrow with your shield drain stamina?

    who can even answer these questions

    Or an even better one, Why does you getting shot on your shield thats on your back stop health and stamina regen?

  • the impact hurts your self esteem

  • Interesting, wulfy, but unneeded and overcomplicated. No offense, but I can tweak one setting and achieve everything you’re talking about doing: stamina

    Considering where the game used to be in this regard, the current pool feels restricting and arbitrary. And don’t think for a second there aren’t still stamina bugs in the game, which only serves to compound the issue.

    What I’m saying is, if the pool was larger, we wouldn’t need your adjustments because the emphasis on stamina warfare has been lessened. It wouldn’t matter if parry was your only option because there’s enough stamina available to make other choices irrelevant. This is how the game played from the start and, unfortunately, still does. I say unfortunately because when the pool was lessened for like the 3rd time in a row, the gap it created in the meta wasn’t offset by anything, hence the ideas and theorycrafting of other mechanics.

    Now, you might say “But HEXEN, having more options and broadening the combat so it’s deeper is a good thing! We can expand the combat!”

    Normally, I’d agree with you. But this is Chivalry Medieval Warfare developed by Torn Banner and, I’m sorry to say, I remember stuff. TB isn’t known for their positive patching process, or their ability to introduce new features/content/mechanics without breaking something or introducing/re-introducing problems.

    In my opinion, the simplest solutions for this particular game as we move forward is always going to be the best, even if it has to sacrifice a bit of depth. Remember that Chivalry’s combat is already more complex than anything else you can find on the market.

  • I would shed no tears if i saw quick kick go. It,s retarded how you can completely negate overhead into stab comboes with it(works with lookdowns now too but flinch time is going to 0.9 i reckon)

  • Combo feints would be too powerfull if you remove quick kick. I do agree that it shouldn’t drain your opponent’s stamina but rather should serve as a function to trade stamina for the initiation on which you can either feint/attack or get kicked back depending on what weapon you are using and your footwork.

  • I think its fine, it should be more reliable if anything because I’ve had it miss when I can see my entire leg clipping into my opponent’s body.

    Fix that and then you can start considering a nerf on it.

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