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  • @CRUSHED:

    You know its true, because when a game you loved deeply is changed with patches that you don’t like, what you have left is a game that you loved for its old features and while it has changed possibly for the worse, its all you have left to remind you of once was. sniff :’(

    or not lel i mean pre june 2013 game could be worse than what the game is now just like people say, i mean its not like people look back on that patch for a reason or anything.

    really, if torn banner just dug up the old stashed away pre june version of chivalry (please don’t tell me you guys deleted it…PLEASE GOD NO) and put it up on the beta, the community could see what worked then and what works now and maybe come out with a patch that merges the best of both phases of chivalry.



  • Necro.

    That is a good idea though. People do see things through rose-tited glasses (WoW Vanilla will not be the amazing game you remember it as if it were to return today in 2014), so it would be better to simply have the old game as “beta” so that we may be able to look at it today more objectively (I didn’t even own this game prior to that patch, so the game has steadily been going uphill for me). Best of both worlds would be amazing.

    I’m rather appalled that kick still phases through players. It would be a great 2v1 and anti-caveman mechanic if it actually did what it’s supposed to.



  • Except Chivalry really was amazing before the patches because every single patch made the game worse in some way. The biggest problems of beta chiv/release chiv were like how easy it was to get around shields with like flanged mace and war hammer and falchion and cudgels. The bugs were like cool bugs such as recovering while sprinting. The worst thing I can possibly remember were like perma feint Norse swords and the Dane axe was really good. Halberd was also really fast, but it’s not like vanguards had knockback or stamina drain and longsword/SoW 2 shot them.

    The ballista still sucks since they lowered the bolt hitbox and added splash damage. Now you hear it hitting enemies all the time without doing anything and sometimes the splash damage doesn’t work. Then Agathians for whatever reason cannot kill any Masons with it at all (Sorry, I meant on Battlegrounds), and I used to hold up the entire left spawn using the ballista. Then they introduced the catapult fast clicks bug. The two good fixes I can remember outside fixing those weapons and stuff were Mason kite shields not loading on their backs and thus not passively blocking projectiles, and the catapult projectile cam. Those are probably my two favorite fixes from TBS, and probably two of the very few lol.



  • i like when they fixed shields for masons not appearing on the back

    it was such a good fix they had to do it 5 times



  • @SOC:

    Except Chivalry really was amazing before the patches because every single patch made the game worse in some way. The biggest problems of beta chiv/release chiv were like how easy it was to get around shields with like flanged mace and war hammer and falchion and cudgels. The bugs were like cool bugs such as recovering while sprinting. The worst thing I can possibly remember were like perma feint Norse swords and the Dane axe was really good. Halberd was also really fast, but it’s not like vanguards had knockback or stamina drain and longsword/SoW 2 shot them.

    The ballista still sucks since they lowered the bolt hitbox and added splash damage. Now you hear it hitting enemies all the time without doing anything and sometimes the splash damage doesn’t work. Then Agathians for whatever reason cannot kill any Masons with it at all, and I used to hold up the entire left spawn using the ballista. Then they introduced the catapult fast clicks bug. The two good fixes I can remember outside fixing those weapons and stuff were Mason kite shields not loading on their backs and thus not passively blocking projectiles, and the catapult projectile cam. Those are probably my two favorite fixes from TBS, and probably two of the very few lol.

    knight bias is real



  • I don’t see the bias. can you point it out to me pls?



  • @Userper:

    I don’t see the bias. can you point it out to me pls?

    me either what bias



  • Huggles, please point out the bias.



  • Yeah I’d like to see the bias presented too.



  • @SOC:

    The biggest problems of beta chiv/release chiv were like how easy it was to get around shields with like flanged mace and war hammer and falchion and cudgels. The bugs were like cool bugs such as recovering while sprinting. The worst thing I can possibly remember were like perma feint Norse swords and the Dane axe was really good. Halberd was also really fast, but it’s not like

    Shields back then took skill to block and keep up with fast short weapons made for the sole purpose of getting in your face and trying to hack around your shield. It makes sense that the axes and war hammer were optimal choices for getting around shields.

    recovery while sprinting is pretty stupid imho and is clearly a design flaw that only seriously benefits knights as they also had forward chase back then as well. Pre june 2013 had plenty of balance flaws that clearly favored knights, the real reason pre june 2013 was cool was because of how the intened mechanics played out. Everything was useful back then and had a purpose.

    Parrying felt skillful back then and the 120 fov rectangle reference actually mattered. Now you can look anywhere, have crappy footwork, and just throw your parry up and it’ll block most of the time.

    joke game, joke skill ceiling

    “o well huggles you’re just a random joe hurr durr”

    If a random joe can even get into this so called “comp scene” and even stand a chance against some pretty good players the game just isn’t all that skillful.

    The hardest thing in this game is feint reading, and feints are just to limiting of a skill factor to make this game ever truly skillful. It basically trains you to do the opposite of what most games require, to be delayed on your reactions and timing, when blocking drags no problemo because nothing is really hard to parry in this game besides the occasional animation breaking b0ckswing.



  • Like i said, if tbs could put the old pre-june patch chivalry in the beta we could see firsthand what worked better then and what works better now, without rose tinted glasses or trying to go off of memory. It would be an amazing service to this game and the community to do a thing like that. No more arguing about the june patch or the effects of it, just playing it and going “okay, this was better then, that was better then, that was broken then and is now fixed so keep that fix, well this mechanic is slightly better in the current game, but hey this mechanic works much better in the old chivalry because x and x, also the weapon balance now is better for x weapon and x weapon” etc etc. You know what would be even more helpful is to have two different beta clients. One would be kept as the pre june 2013 patch to have as a reference against the live game during the whole patch making phase, and another one to test out bringing stuff from the old game into the new game on the patch we would be building from comparing the new version and the old version during the beta patch process.



  • someone update Chiv+ please



  • @Huggles:

    Shields back then took skill to block and keep up with fast short weapons made for the sole purpose of getting in your face and trying to hack around your shield. It makes sense that the axes and war hammer were optimal choices for getting around shields.

    So weapons that can be used with shields make sense to get around other shields? I still think it takes skill to block with your shield currently but I’m all for stopping the easy bs “back blocks” that happen all the time now. But face hugging and LMB spamming your flanged mace to auto hit around his shield doesn’t take any skill at all, your arm going through his shield. It’s just silly.

    @Huggles:

    recovery while sprinting is pretty stupid imho and is clearly a design flaw that only seriously benefits knights as they also had forward chase back then as well. Pre june 2013 had plenty of balance flaws that clearly favored knights, the real reason pre june 2013 was cool was because of how the intened mechanics played out. Everything was useful back then and had a purpose.

    I agree that it’s a silly bug but it was fun, and IIRC (and I might not) the only way to activate it was to take fall damage while sprinting, so it wasn’t something that “favored knights because of forward chase.” You couldn’t use it during fights. However, stamina drain was not useful nor did it have a purpose because when you ran out of stamina, you just got knocked back and could immediately parry any weapon in the game. Knights need to have many benefits because they have no OP crutches like fast footspeed, archery, dodge, or long fast weapons. It’s much easier for you to land 4 hits on a knight than a knight to land 1 hit on you.

    @Huggles:

    Parrying felt skillful back then and the 120 fov rectangle reference actually mattered. Now you can look anywhere, have crappy footwork, and just throw your parry up and it’ll block most of the time.

    I agree it’s a little too easy to parry now due to matrix parrying, and also how it’s bs when people block stuff from behind, and also blocking multiple hits from one parry is a little too easy right now IMO.

    @Huggles:

    The hardest thing in this game is feint reading, and feints are just to limiting of a skill factor to make this game ever truly skillful. It basically trains you to do the opposite of what most games require, to be delayed on your reactions and timing, when blocking drags no problemo because nothing is really hard to parry in this game besides the occasional animation breaking b0ckswing.

    I think feint reading is really easy honestly, maybe because I’ve played since closed beta and taught my self how to do it almost as a natural muscle memory now. Right now I think the hardest things to parry are delayed drags.



  • hardest thing to parry is backswings when playing with 100+ ping

    shit doesnt even animate



  • Especially after you get kicked and stagger or teleport around a bit.



  • @SOC:

    So weapons that can be used with shields make sense to get around other shields? I still think it takes skill to block with your shield currently but I’m all for stopping the easy bs “back blocks” that happen all the time now. But face hugging and LMB spamming your flanged mace to auto hit around his shield doesn’t take any skill at all, your arm going through his shield. It’s just silly.

    those were all parriable you just had to look back to the side they were attacking and side step to create more distance hence more skillful blocking required. The only truly “broken” shield back then was the buckler. The rest were way more intuitive than the shit we have now where the box doesn’t even match the model and goes off into four corners and sides.

    It actually allowed a real way to counter shields instead of just stamina drain gimmicks we have to rely on now because shields are immune to everything else. Regardless of how non viable shields are currently, they’re still pretty stupid in that regard where you are basically immune to everything if you can manage your stamina well.

    Also if sprint during recovery didn’t work during combat which would be the bug I thought you were refferring to, then I don’t really care about it either :P

    Forward chase was really broken back then though because it didn’t give much space at all for vanguards to use their kiting tacs. Knights never needed forward chase, maa just needed a base footspeed nerf but maa base speed was fine back then anyhoot. It was just the ability to spam dodge that made is seem so op and stupid to fight against.

    Archers were uber OP pre patch too

    because of forward chase and 0 bubble knights were the dominant class as they could catch up to anyone on the battlefield and get into facehug range handle hitting, hit trading, and dragging their way to victory. As of right now I honestly think handle hits weren’t bad at all as they at least made parrying a challenge lol and I wouldn’t mind forward chase being brought back since the bubble increases but I hate the bubble and would rather see forward chase kept out and the bubble removed.

    Pre june 13 feel to it without the knight hit trade meta.



  • Archers were actually kinada bad back then because of how unreliable the projectile drop was, it was also harder to hit, as if the hitbox was smaller, might be related to the bubble?



  • @Huggles:

    those were all parriable you just had to look back to the side they were attacking and side step to create more distance hence more skillful blocking required. The only truly “broken” shield back then was the buckler. The rest were way more intuitive than the shit we have now where the box doesn’t even match the model and goes off into four corners and sides.

    Yes, it was parriable and blockable but it was really silly IMO and felt pretty inconsistent for awhile as we were all learning the game, but then you had weapons like falchion and cudgel which were almost impossible to block sometimes, and the hatchet and Dane axe were nightmares too. I don’t think it should be that easy to get around shields, but I also don’t think it should be impossible. I think kicks need to be more consistent and possibly heavy kicks come a tad faster after feinting. But there was no distance game back then for shields as there was no bubble and we had forward chase: often, using a shield meant you wanted to get as close as possible to the opponent and face hug LMB spam.

    @Huggles:

    It actually allowed a real way to counter shields instead of just stamina drain gimmicks we have to rely on now because shields are immune to everything else. Regardless of how non viable shields are currently, they’re still pretty stupid in that regard where you are basically immune to everything if you can manage your stamina well.

    I think kicks need to be the counter play for shields. They sacrifice so much since they can’t riposte, so kicks need to be designed to be the counter instead of focusing everything on getting around them or stamina draining them. They’re supposed to be defensive and slow you down. It is pretty hard to feint to kick good shield users so I do think feint to kick needs to come faster and kicks need to cost way less stamina, and be more consistent.

    @Huggles:

    Forward chase was really broken back then though because it didn’t give much space at all for vanguards to use their kiting tacs. Knights never needed forward chase, maa just needed a base footspeed nerf but maa base speed was fine back then anyhoot. It was just the ability to spam dodge that made is seem so op and stupid to fight against.

    Kiting still isn’t a thing, never was even before this chase buff patch, I don’t know why people say it is. I think forward chase benefits every class that is pushing hard for the initiative and the player who can combo feint to parry well. This means every class benefits from it well, but also makes back pedaling something that can be punished as I’ve said before. I agree that MaAs needed footspeed nerfs even back then, but instead they got buffed and people still say “But MaAs were nerfed” when really all they’ve ever received are buffs with the removal of forward chase, CftP sucking now, and the official ability to dodge out of flinch permanently now. Not to mention nerfing longsword and SoW buffed MaAs. Okay, well, no, they were nerfed with the broadsword nerfs but so were knights that use it. But instead of nerfing broad they should nerf MaAs directly. By doing so it would indirectly open up more weapons for them as they would drastically have to change tactics.

    @Huggles:

    Archers were uber OP pre patch too

    Archers were always OP but only got more OP as they were buffed with missile speed increased and crossbow buffs. Thankfully the cudgel was nerfed and now they got rid of back stab and removed projectile flinch and even some bow nerfs, but it’s no where near enough. Also being able to switch weapons out of flinch is a huge benefit for archers.

    @Huggles:

    because of forward chase and 0 bubble knights were the dominant class as they could catch up to anyone on the battlefield and get into facehug range handle hitting, hit trading, and dragging their way to victory. As of right now I honestly think handle hits weren’t bad at all as they at least made parrying a challenge lol and I wouldn’t mind forward chase being brought back since the bubble increases but I hate the bubble and would rather see forward chase kept out and the bubble removed.

    The only reason knights were so dominant back then is because MaAs were still being discovered and learned. The skill cap was lower back then because of the natural rate at which you master the game over time. True, vanguards needed buffs but just not in this way. The thing about the sword knights before the nerfs is that they didn’t excel at anything. They had no inherent weaknesses, yes, but they also had no inherent strengths. This means they have even match ups across the board but were also beaten by players with skill. That doesn’t make it OP at all. You could beat them with any weapon in the game provided you could match or best their skill. I think the game should be all about footworking, dragging, feinting, outplaying your opponent to victory. That’s the very definition of balance, especially considering it’s not like the swords hard countered anything. The fact that knights rely so much on skillful mechanics to win is how it should be and why they need those benefits. As far as hit trades go, it’s just the by product you have when you make CftP suck which I’m pretty sure most of us really wanted changed. Now that it was changed, I think we want it back to the old way since we found that the consequences weren’t as fun as we imagined. I still don’t personally have problems with hit trades but I do have problems with flinch being consistent (you can flinch SoW users far easier than a maul user), and with CftP we would just notice these things less as it wouldn’t happen as often.

    As for the bubble and forward chase, fine, leave forward chase out but nerf MaA footspeed to a value that was lower than it was before it was buffed. Then focus on giving them team battle purpose outside a firepot, and make firepot more engaging for both players. As I keep saying, make a brief cool down where MaAs can’t attack or parry after dodging so you can punish bad dodges. Make stamina values overall go up so we’re not running out as much. Make MaAs unable to dodge after being flinched. I think bubble might need even more reduction but I definitely don’t want to go back to look behind you to parry hatchet days.

    The amount of effort I have to put in to play knight (without messer or maul) well vs the amount of effort I have to put in to play MaA well is really stupid. MaAs are really easy. If you can play knight or vanguard perfectly then you’re already good at MaA. If you can play MaA perfectly then you’re going to get owned as a knight or vanguard because you don’t have any crutches to forgive your mistakes. Larger health is far less forgiving when you compare it to a class that never gets hit anyway.



  • meh. all this arguing about how it was or wasnt back then. lets see it in the beta so we can see and play it again first hand.



  • The reason people can never be happy is because they think the past better than it was, the present worse than it is and the future less resolved than it will be.


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