Combos and Alternate Attacks



  • PLEASE READ BEFORE VOTING!
    thanks

    What I’m proposing here is a change from the current combo system. With TBS you never know, especially in the animation derpartment, but this is something I was expecting back when alternate attacks were first announced. I was so excited to be able to throw attacks from the other direction, AT WILL, and when I played it was totally worth the excitement. :excitement:

    The disappointment came when I saw that no matter what attack you choose, during a combo it always comes out left-to-right, right-to-left anyway. Even if you combo into an alt, it will do a normal swing. What I’m proposing is the ability to perform alternate attacks within combos, even combo the same attack together, like multiple alt slashes in a row. Of course this would have to be animated well. :indecisiveness:

    Let’s call the current combo system, without alternates, the default combo. With alternates or repeated attacks, this is the free combo system. Now a free combo would be a little bit slower on the windup, as your character needs to recover from the swing, and instead of swinging back the other direction like the default combo, he now has to re-position the weapon on the starting side before swinging again, effectively chaining 2 left-to-right lmbs into a combo, instead of left-to-right, right-to-left. I do not think stabs should be comboable though. We’ve all seen the Spartans in DW. :mad-new:

    This way you have more freedom of movement, you can control where your swings come from more, you can use this to bait and switch, drag, feint etc. It raises the skill ceiling and allows you more control over your weapon. The slightly longer windup on a free combo allows for another type of “feint”, where they may try to block your combo attack too soon, but get hit by the slower free combo, like a right slash then a slower right overhead instead of a normal combo left overhead. This slower windup is to accommodate the free combo animation since the character has to recover and re-position his weapon due to the unorthodox movement involved This is also where the animator(s) will need to STEP IT UP. :witless:

    Anyway, just an idea that was bouncing around in my head for a while, seen it mentioned a few times, thought I’d try to elaborate a bit. Opens up a new window of combat, potentially increasing the depth of combat, or, if done wrong, of ruining the game just when it was starting to recover from last summer.



  • sort of needs refinement I think, it’s bad enough when people spam, now they are going to spam the same exact attack from the same direction? LMB spammers will only do the same attack, and not even a left right combo…



  • if it can be done well sure

    knowing TBS its probably going to be full of bugs and add 10 different desync bugs



  • One of the problems started with the alt swings was that they didnt mirror them like they should have. This led to the alt swings, when originally introduced, were faster. TBS solution was not to rework the animations to be accurate but instead added a small delay from button press to animation making the swings delayed just enough so that the swing timings were mirrored but the animations are not, leading to alt swing desyncs.

    I still do not understand why some combinations work and others do not. You can string up to 8 attacks but you are limited to what those swings are in order to get that many out. What their reasons for this are a mystery. This speaks to what you are originally talking about.

    This also has to do with the key bindings and how you use it. I know that I cannot combo with the default layout in the ways I want too. But once I did a custom key binds, I can do far more different combos. There still is the problem of not fully having control like you said but it is better.



  • @Retsnom:

    One of the problems started with the alt swings was that they didnt mirror them like they should have. This led to the alt swings, when originally introduced, were faster. TBS solution was not to rework the animations to be accurate but instead added a small delay from button press to animation making the swings delayed just enough so that the swing timings were mirrored but the animations are not, leading to alt swing desyncs.

    +1

    10 characters



  • triple harry potter overhead chain fuck yes

    I will become even more overpowered with messer



  • @Retsnom:

    I still do not understand why some combinations work and others do not. You can string up to 8 attacks but you are limited to what those swings are in order to get that many out. What their reasons for this are a mystery. This speaks to what you are originally talking about.

    You can combo up to three same attacks one after another.
    You can’t combo two stabs one after another.
    If you combo different attack after the third of the same attack you already did or after stab and repeat you can combo up to nine (I think it’s nine but not sure) times.

    For daggers, all one-handers and two-handed swords:
    Alternate overheads always combo to alternate slashes and vice versa.
    Normal overheads always combo to normal slashes and vice versa.
    Normal slashes always combo to alternate slashes and vice versa, same with overheads.
    Stabs always combo either to normal slash or overhead.

    For polearms, battleaxes, hammers and flails:
    Normal slashes always combo to alternate overheads and vice versa.
    Normal overheads always combo to alternate slashes and vice versa.
    Stabs always combo to either normal overheads or normal slashes.

    Ripostes always use normal slash or overhead.



  • You can actually keep comboing for as long as you want, unless you run out of stamina or fail to chain different attacks together.



  • @Monsteri:

    You can actually keep comboing for as long as you want, unless you run out of stamina or fail to chain different attacks together.

    No sir, there is a maximum of attacks in a single combo. I think it’s 9 but might as well be 8 and then it just goes to recovery and you start over. Not like you would ever get to 8 strikes anyway in a normal situation.



  • The max I ever got to chain together is 8 before I ran out of stam. This of course could be relative to the weapon and cost per swing. So theoretically you could get up to 9 with certain weapons before running out of stamina. The point that the original poster is making is that you are not allowed to string some combos together in that they have to be different after the third and you cannot string combo stab spams.

    The idea of having the freedom to do any is a valid one. But as I stated earlier the ALT swing animations and timing would need to be corrected instead of the cheap fix that they did in the first place.



  • Yeah, I think reworking a system that’s flawed from the beginning may not be a great idea. It’s like ripping up an old, poorly-installed floor that was also built on bad foundations. There’s rats and mould and samsquanches. Maybe Chiv 2?



  • I like the idea in general. I dislike the idea of comboing attacks from the same side. To me the reason the current LMB combo looks ok is because the first attack leaves you would up for the second attack from the other side, explaining why there’s little windup. I’m not sure how the animation would work if your arm has to suddenly appear on the other side of the body again.



  • @Dr:

    I dislike the idea of comboing attacks from the same side. To me the reason the current LMB combo looks ok is because the first attack leaves you would up for the second attack from the other side, explaining why there’s little windup. I’m not sure how the animation would work if your arm has to suddenly appear on the other side of the body again.

    That plus stab-in-to-stab combo would be OP as demonstrated by DW spears. The animations for combo stabs are already pretty poor and deceiving so just imagine if the only thing they’d do is pull the sword and stab again…

    I think the system as it is now is fine.


  • Global Moderator

    The flail does this with overheads.

    It looks unnatural and a waste of energy.



  • stab into stab combos are the only thing i liked about DW

    fuck everyone up as a spartan with infinity stab combo drags



  • Well I already addressed the combo from the same side having a longer windup than the default left, right combo. I also addressed not having stab into stab combos. Did you guys even read it?



  • @Oy:

    Well I already addressed the combo from the same side having a longer windup than the default left, right combo. I also addressed not having stab into stab combos. Did you guys even read it?

    Welcome to on my boat, nobody ever reads my shit either. That’s why I post tl,dr instructions.



  • Well you didn’t describe it very well. Do you mean the windup animation will take longer because you will have to move the arm to the other side of the body again?

    I still don’t like combos coming from the same side of the body.



  • I’m responsible for what I say, not how others interpret it. Yes, the windup is longer because you have the awkward movement of moving the blade back across the body after release. Just because it’s unorthodox doesn’t mean it’s not effective, as in swinging it to the left, then bringing it back over your head and swinging left again. It’s like a tornado loop maneuver or some shit.

    All I’m asking for is to be able to do a left swing then a left overhead if I want to, instead of being forced into a left swing then a right overhead. It’s counter-intuitive to have alt swings that don’t work if you try to combo into it, unless you do a certain chain of attacks to get it to come out. I also think it would allow for more skilled gameplay if you can incorporate alt attacks into combos, as you can really throw people off with unexpected moves, and the animations would have to be improved. What’s wrong with having better, more fluid animations?

    We don’t necessarily have to make alt, alt, alt swing combos doable, but at least alt swing, alt overhead or something. The point is not having pre-scripted combos.



  • @Oy:

    We don’t necessarily have to make alt, alt, alt swing combos doable, but at least alt swing, alt overhead or something. The point is not having pre-scripted combos.

    No one is forcing you to keep your combo going, feel free to pause and start another attack at anytime… kinda like your idea but there is no room for TB to **** up the game again.