Darkforest stage 1



  • I made a post about this some time ago, but I find the issue remains the same.

    Darkforest is commonly heralded as the most balanced map. But it is the only map where I see the attackers regularly fail the first stage. Attackers failing stage 1 of other maps is extremely rare in my experience (over 1400 hours). But defender wins on stage one of DF occur about 40% of the time. Even on Hillside, where stage 1 is quite difficult against a moderately well organized team, the fist stage is nearly always completed because the attacking team has ample time to complete it.

    Once the cart goes under the walkway on stage 1 it often becomes quite difficult to push, and the attackers have usually have an inadequate amount of time to get it to the door. I really think the attackers need a little more time to get it done, df has always been my favourite TO map and it’s a pity it’s the only one that frequently ends on the first stage.

    EDIT: Dammit I knew people still wouldn’t understand. This is not a matter of “which stage is harder”. That’s totally irrelevant to the point I’m trying to make. What I’m trying to say is that df ends on stage 1 far more than any other map ends on stage 1.



  • all the stages seem pretty favored for defenders in df tbh



  • I find Stage 2 has the greatest chance for defenders to win. Then Stage 1, then stage 4 then Stage 3, it hardly ever holds attackers off.

    I think Stage 1 really comes down to how good the defenders archers are. Since the archers can pretty much hang near their spawn, or stand near the objective door they are hard to get to, but can really damage the attacks that are generally coming from 3 locations all in the same general direction.
    It is also much easier for the defenders to attack the attackers archers at that point. The attacking archers have to come forward to at least the overpass to even get a crack at the defenders archers, since both defenders spawns pretty much exit at the ends of the overpass, they inevitably walk into the attacking archers zone of use. This effectivly forces the attacking archers to go under the overpass which makes them much easier targets for the defending archers.

    So basically Stage 1 needs a map modification done so that it has a separate avenue of attack. A tunnel that exits towards the rear of the archers, the entrance can be near that little cave on the left hand side of the map. Make it so the entrance is only available once the the cart gets to a certain point, to prevent people using this early to get behind the defenders.



  • is balanced.



  • @Toll:

    I find Stage 2 has the greatest chance for defenders to win. Then Stage 1, then stage 4 then Stage 3, it hardly ever holds attackers off.

    In my experience, the attackers are most likely to fail in Stage 3 (the gate). It’s all too easy for the defenders to focus on one crank.



  • tbh the only time i see the defenders win on stage 1 is when agatha is stacked


  • Mod

    I always just turtle behind the cart. Works every time.



  • Who cares, you play on both sides.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    Who cares, you play on both sides.

    this

    /10rawboners



  • Was this how I used to be before I could carry a pubto team?



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    Who cares, you play on both sides.

    I enjoy the map and want it to go to atleast stage 2, regardless of what team I’m on



  • I used to make this argument in AOC on maps that were not balanced. That argument is that that maps should not be balanced. The reason for this is that known maps that are difficult to defend make the defense all the more sweet. In AOC on Helms Deep and several other maps, they usually slightly favored one side or the other. When you won a difficult map it makes the win all that more sweet. It also promotes innovations for over coming obstacles and challenges. Perfectly balanced maps tend to be boring, specially if teams are stacked.

    I dont think DarkForest stage 1 or any stage is unbalanced. Something should be hard.



  • My “opinion” in this instance is fact, don’t dispute it

    Balance doesn’t matter, in team objective because no matter what you will play both sides. Hopefully it’s possible to be able to get through it and win with either side, but from a purely competitive viewpoint it is absolutely arbitrary and useless to dispute TO balance. Some maps are just more fun to play on, and with the horrible optimization in this game a map not being broken or laggy must be worshiped. That is all.



  • ^good points.



  • Fuck it.

    2Fort4 Chivalry.



  • Sadly, I actually want to see that :(



  • As you stated, this is purely your opinion, but can’t you see the problems that would come from everyone wanting to be on one team?



  • Seeing as the defenders only need to win one stage to take the game, whereas attackers must win them all, it is fair for all but the last stage to be in favour of the attackers



  • @Ready:

    As you stated, this is purely your opinion, but can’t you see the problems that would come from everyone wanting to be on one team?

    What? Switching sides is mandatory, I’m talking about competitive play not public. In public, yea sure whatever it can be unbalanced sometimes but the teams are usually stacked anyway. It’s the team that does it, not the objectives themselves. And as far as comp goes switchin sides is mandated to decide who wins the game lmao.



  • AoC version of the map is better.

    Only balanced map in the game is Frigid. Best map 2014