Fix the Spears!



  • Brandistock -

    -Increase stab windup time {.6 to .65}
    -Increase slash windup time {.5 to .55}
    -Reduce overhead windup from .8 to .775

    Spear -

    -Increase stab windup time {.6 to .625} OR {.6 to .65 to be same as brandi as it is now}
    -Increase slash windup time {.475 to .525}
    -Leave overhead windup alone at {.725}

    Fork -
    -Increase stab windup time {.475 to .525}
    -Increase slash windup time {.4 to .475}
    -Overhead windup is generally fine at {.55}

    Basically, these weapons have pretty glitchy animations and need to be slowed down for them to be more readable. At the moment the timings are all so messed up, allowing people to do ridiculous slash riposte and with the brandi, extremely slow overheads. You shouldn’t have HUGE extremes like that, and the poor animations don’t justify that. The spear is generally ok, but still borderline broken with it’s ripostes. Fork is just gimmicky, and slowing it down won’t make it viable, I realize that, but at the moment, it’s not viable anyway. It needs something else.

    Maybe extra windup time should only apply to ripostes?

    I’m a newbie at giving suggestions in statistics, so feel free to help me with my numbers. I may have made mistakes.



  • Problem with spears is that there’s only one way to do it, and TB have tried to come up with three. Three swords or maces is an easy thing to make them look and feel distinct, but something sharp on the end of a long stick doesn’t have three answers, particularly when you can’t combo and the range advantage only really applies to one attack.

    The spear works. The brandi and fork don’t and should be ditched.

    Brief aside though from someone who uses a spear rather than someone who just fights against them: The two handed flinch reduction from a couple of patches back has ruined the feel of the spear as a weapon. It needs to either get a combo or it’s own unique flinch time to be halfway fun again, it’s just hit trade city at the moment. I think people don’t mind so much because the Brandi is so OP and it’s fun to see it diminished, but the spear and to lesser extent the fork didn’t deserve the nerf stick quite so hard.



  • fork is a troll weapon hue

    TBS pls BUFF


  • Global Moderator

    I have no real problems with spears. Brandi feints get me every time for some reason. Their timing is fine though. Make Brandi slower lol. Its slow enough unless you have the reflexes of a snail.



  • A slower brandi wouldn’t even be a nerf. I’ve seen as many people die from blocking too soon as too late. An increased flinch window (the other sort) would be better.

    This is the problem with addressing balance purely by tweaking timings. Slower ≠ worse.



  • id actually prefer weapons to be slower because that would give them more dragablity

    if spear was made faster it would be worse because you wouldnt be able to drag it for example



  • Had the idea of swapping damages for overhead and stab. Slowing down stab a bit and speeding up the overhead. You’d have a less damage long range stab and more damage less range stab. Makes more reason to me. Also slow down slashes a bit and round them to 30-35 damage. The thrusting spear could have cut damage for slashes. And finally allow combos.

    Currently, the true power of spear comes from it being able to assist in fights without placing the user into danger. You just have to hold back and poke the enemy every time they try to attack your friend. Thus the reduced damage on the long stab, so it would be less rewarding and on the other hand more damage for the more close range stab, so it keeps its power. The other part where the spears shine are the shitty animations, especially for a riposte. I think that you can delay slashes all you want but as long as the animations for it are so shitty, it still gonna be annoying as hell.



  • Keep in mind that increasing windup doesn’t mean it’s increasing the speed, rather it’s decreasing the speed. I’d like the spear a bit slower on some of it’s faster attacks, the brandi’s overhead faster for less draggability, the brandi’s faster attacks slowed down and slower than the spear, the fork… idk about the fork lol

    Right now, the timings are a shitstorm, with many extremes. The brandi’s slowest windup is .8, while it’s fastest is .5. That’s actually quite ridiculous.



  • @Martys:

    Had the idea of swapping damages for overhead and stab. Slowing down stab a bit and speeding up the overhead. You’d have a less damage long range stab and more damage less range stab. Makes more reason to me.

    It does not actually make sense. The longer overhead has more time and more distance in which energy can be gathered for an attack. It is comparable to a punch delivered to something 3 feet in front of you having more power than a punch delivered to something one foot in front of you.



  • The reason the brandi is OP is cause of the slash, nothing else. 90% of the players on lvl 50+ can read brandi drags in duels without any problems. The reason why that weapon is gud is cause of the drags. Nerf the slash, even nerf the damage or the feints and whatnot but don’t fucking touch the drags. Back then when I started playing I chose that weapon cause no one else played it (in competitive play at least) and therefore I take this discussion quite personally cause Chivalry IS brandistock for me, basically 99% of my time in Chiv is brandistock play. If you take away the dragging from the brandi that weapon will be shit and boring.
    I agree that this weapon needs a nerf (or should just get reverted to what it was one year ago) but don’t nerf the drags.



  • @afiNity:

    The reason the brandi is OP is cause of the slash, nothing else. 90% of the players on lvl 50+ can read brandi drags in duels without any problems. The reason why that weapon is gud is cause of the drags. Nerf the slash, even nerf the damage or the feints and whatnot but don’t fucking touch the drags. Back then when I started playing I chose that weapon cause no one else played it (in competitive play at least) and therefore I take this discussion quite personally cause Chivalry IS brandistock for me, basically 99% of my time in Chiv is brandistock play. If you take away the dragging from the brandi that weapon will be shit and boring.
    I agree that this weapon needs a nerf (or should just get reverted to what it was one year ago) but don’t nerf the drags.

    ^This. Also the other spears are perfectly fine. Fork is never used in comp play and there’s absolutely no reason to nerf it. The LMB on it is dumb but that’s all it has going for it. Spear is just really solid when used well. You’ve got that massive range which can just **** MAA and it can also be dragged quite well. But it can’t combo, which is a big downside and what keeps spears balanced.



  • @Cerebral:

    It does not actually make sense. The longer overhead has more time and more distance in which energy can be gathered for an attack. It is comparable to a punch delivered to something 3 feet in front of you having more power than a punch delivered to something one foot in front of you.

    Want to tell me that the way vanguard does the long-range stab (overhead) is supposed to be more penetrating and damaging that the way he does the normal stab? I mean just look at him, he just sort of throws it forward holding it with only one hand…. I mean come on, how is he ever going to penetrate any armor with kind of stab, sure it’s gonna be quite unpleasant on unarmored targets but I’d say that already mail would greatly reduce how far would the spearhead reach through it. With the stab he actually holds it with both hands puts his entire body to it, now this is the attitude to puncture through mail and possibly get around plate.



  • Alright, even though this has turned into an argument about realism rather than balance I will explain it. You are right in that at apex of the spears overhead lunge attack it is not acting like a stab. At this point of the attack the spear is almost acting like a projectile. The spear is not extended outwards as a result of the fact that its weilder is holding it lightly, but rather as a result of the weapons momentum. This power is the result of all the energy the weilder has put into the spear at this point. Since the weapon has so much inertia it is able to break through the armor of the enemy and is much much more effective than simply applying a constant wedging pressure… Once it is stopped the weilder simply pulls the spear back into his grip. So basically you have turned this spear into one giant short range javelin. Now obviously such an attack would not work at point blank range and some games like war of the roses recognized this aspect of the spear and restricted it by only allowing it to cause damage when the spearhead is hitting the enemy while the attack was fully extended. However this is not fun nor is it balanced so chivalry does not work this way.


  • Global Moderator

    @afiNity:

    The reason the brandi is OP is cause of the slash, nothing else. 90% of the players on lvl 50+ can read brandi drags in duels without any problems. The reason why that weapon is gud is cause of the drags. Nerf the slash, even nerf the damage or the feints and whatnot but don’t fucking touch the drags. Back then when I started playing I chose that weapon cause no one else played it (in competitive play at least) and therefore I take this discussion quite personally cause Chivalry IS brandistock for me, basically 99% of my time in Chiv is brandistock play. If you take away the dragging from the brandi that weapon will be shit and boring.
    I agree that this weapon needs a nerf (or should just get reverted to what it was one year ago) but don’t nerf the drags.

    I think the slash is the easiest thing to parry. You can see it coming a mile off and you can’t really drag it for an advantage.



  • spears are fine - brandi just needs the slash slowed down n das it - otherwise the weapon is fine.

    If you get consistently wrecked by a fork under any circumstances you ought to kill yourself, its a novelty weapon



  • @Triumphant:

    spears are fine - brandi just needs the slash slowed down n das it - otherwise the weapon is fine.

    If you get consistently wrecked by a fork under any circumstances you ought to kill yourself, its a novelty weapon

    I agree, except with the fork…… Most OP dueling weapon NA if you know what you’re doing.



  • @Huggles:

    I agree, except with the fork…… Most OP dueling weapon NA if you know what you’re doing.

    Really? I’ve never seen anyone playing that weapon in a competitive match. In Europe it’s mostly spear and sometimes brandistock



  • You might be surprised how easily you can duck spears at close range. People always aim head. Since they can’t cftp you can get a free hit off, and usually you only need 2 hits to kill.



  • Most OP dueling weapon NA if you know what you’re doing.

    HWS + Kite/ Norse + Kite



  • @afiNity:

    Really? I’ve never seen anyone playing that weapon in a competitive match. In Europe it’s mostly spear and sometimes brandistock

    I should add: In teamgames. No one plays spears in duels here. Well, I do.
    But anyway, what makes the fork OP?


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