A few weapons that need addressing.



  • Hello, this is a thread that is going to discuss different weapons that are imbalanced.
    What i mean by imbalanced ?
    Weapons that are either completely useless (like the Falchion) or weapons that completely outclass all of the other weapons in the same tree or even on the entire class(Like the messer).
    Please note that i don’t want any weapons nerfed into oblivion and becoming useless cause that’s what developers in general tend to do.
    I am simply pointing out the overpowered/underpowered parts of the weapon’s mechanics.
    Now, with that being said, all constructive criticism is welcome and try not to go off topic.

    First off let’s start with the weapons that need buffing or changing to become more effective:

    1.Like i already mentioned, the Falchion has been overlooked for a very long time now, in my opinion it was fine the way it was and it got nerfed into oblivion and became completely useless. So please revert the changes as the weapon was decent before the nerf.

    2.Moving on, the warhammer hasn’t seen much play and for a good reason, it’s the easiest weapon to kite/miss with in this game.
    It is completely useless against Men at Arms, Archers, Vanguards and average at best vs Knights. Simply ducking and leaning backwards is enough for your enemy to miss with this weapon even if you are standing right next to each other.
    Best fix would come in a form of a slight Range buff.

    **3.**The Bearded Axe, since the combo feint nerf i haven’t seen one player use this weapon, simply because it’s just shit compared to both the double and pole axe.
    Best fix would come in a form of decreasing the turn cap and making the release A BIT longer on the overhead so you can actually aim with this thing.

    4.Flail lol. (completely rework this weapon, it’s complete shit.)

    5.I am not a big archer player but what i see is that the only bow being used is the warbow.
    Possible fix: Increase the speed of the Long and Short bow.

    Now let’s move on to the overpowered weapons.

    1.I am gonna start with the obvious.
    The greatsword, probably one of the best weapons in the game and for a good reason as well, this weapon has pretty much everything.
    Best fix would come in a form of a slight speed nerf: (increase the wind up on the slash and overhead from 0.5 to 0.55).
    **
    2.The Messer
    The reason this weapon is on the list is because it completely outclasses all of the other knight weapons and especially the other bastard swords.
    It can 2 hit knights with one shot to the head and 1 to the torso, it can 1 hit MaAs with a slash to the head and pretty much always 2 hits a vanguard. All this while being almost just as fast as the LS and SoW ( a bit shorter but more dragable, so it compensates for it’s range.)
    Best form of nerf (and i have really given this one a lot of thought): Increase the windup on the slash from 0.525 to 0.55 and on the overhead from 0.55 to 0.6 . At the moment it’s too easy to trade with this weapon.
    An alternative to balancing this weapon out, would be to buff the longsword and SoW a bit, but i think the first suggestion is a bit better as SoW and Longsword are strong weapons as is, and that would only create the Sword-knight masterrace.
    **
    3
    .The holy water sprinkler: this weapon is just too damn fast.
    Best form of a nerf would be to slow the entire weapon down a tad bit(without making it useless): increasing the windup on the slash from 3.5 to 3.75, the overhead from 3.75 to 0.4 and the stab from 3.5 to 3.75 .
    **
    4.Polehammer and Halberd have been fine since the handle-hit nerf but the stamina drain on these weapons is way too insane for their speed,range and damage.
    **
    5
    .Hatchet + Buckler on the MaA, anyone who played against this setup will agree that it is one of the most broken, anti-fun setups in the game. The main reason for that being is : the windup of the weapon + the shield making it faster + the fact that MaA can dodge out of flinch and hit you while you don’t even have time to CFTP nor to recover and parry.
    Fighting against this setup with a ping of over 80 is impossible because if you wait for the attack you are already too late to parrying it, due to the insane speed.
    Fix: Remove the speed bonus that 1H weapons gain from shields + nerf the overall speed of the hatchet by a bit + Remove the dodge out of flinch on MaA.



  • Nerf javelins. They are faster than LCb while dealing more damage and being the hardest of all to counter. Shortbow needs a huge buff and longbow a slight buff.



  • Also, Longsword. I don’t know what it is with that weapon.

    It seems to be balanced enough, maybe slightly leaning to the “needs buff” side, but it’s main strength is just a 20% success rate of stabbing straight through someone’s parry. I’m not even talking about feints or a dragged stab, I mean literally going through the center of your parry. Even worse so than with the SoW or Claymore, who tend to go faster than their animations can handle.

    Someone needs to take a look at this and confirm I’m not the only one with this issue. It’s really starting to piss me off. :
    If I’m really the only one experiencing this, the nerf you suggested to the Messer should be enough to balance out the high HTK required on Longsword and Sword of War.



  • @J-P:

    Nerf javelins. They are faster than LCb while dealing more damage and being the hardest of all to counter. Shortbow needs a huge buff and longbow a slight buff.

    Don’t you fucking dare to buff any archer primaries.



  • Thanks for the feedback.
    I must say i haven’t seen a Jav archer in ages xD !
    Rick, it’s not only you that’s experiencing that, it’s that with the right angle + the length of the weapon the stab can actually start inside your body and bypass the parry (that’s my take on it).
    Same as people whining about counter lookdown overheads going through parries when you are close to each other, it’s because they start inside your head if angled well.
    @Kreittis
    Nobody uses them so it’s obvious they need to be balanced out.



  • @J-P:

    Nerf javelins. They are faster than LCb while dealing more damage and being the hardest of all to counter.

    Why wouldn’t they be faster than a crossbow? I imagine it would hurt more to take a spear to the chest than a bolt. The projectile speed is slower and it doesn’t fly as far. All completely logical.



  • When someone does use javs they’re op but for some reason everyone uses warbow. I never have Light Crossbows against me these days since it’s so easy to counter.



  • Agreed with everything Shard. Too bad TB won’t take it seriously.

    @Rickvs:

    Also, Longsword. I don’t know what it is with that weapon.

    It seems to be balanced enough, maybe slightly leaning to the “needs buff” side, but it’s main strength is just a 20% success rate of stabbing straight through someone’s parry. I’m not even talking about feints or a dragged stab, I mean literally going through the center of your parry. Even worse so than with the SoW or Claymore, who tend to go faster than their animations can handle.

    Someone needs to take a look at this and confirm I’m not the only one with this issue. It’s really starting to piss me off. :\

    No I experience it too, some form of slight desyncs. Amon/Darenger does them all the time against me so he’ll has some way to emulate it. Its only him since when I fight Shard or any other top knight the timings are like I’m used to their timings but against him its like the overhead hits slighty before the anim and some stabs just goe through me for no apparant reason.

    I’m not calling out for HAX HUEE or anything like that but there is probably some kind of angle or combo that might slightly ofset the animations. I’m also only speaking from my dueling experience so this might just all be placebo :p



  • Shard has everything covered pretty much. Nothing I really disagree with.
    Flail is a joke, but now even warhammer is almost as useless.
    GS is way OP and HWS shouldn’t exist.
    I would also like to add that brandistock slash is retarded. It can 3 shot knight with one headshot. Thats like same htk as longsword. Either slow the slash down or nerf the damage a lot.



  • Completely agree with the OP.

    Flail is hard but rewarding but idk…too short. And HF windup is waaaay to long for that reach. But then again every 1h weapon for the knight has a reach problem.



  • GS needs some serious nerfing. Also, make overheads slower (or less draggable) on all the big VG swords. It would actually make more sense considering the size and weight of those things. Easy fix to instant overheads.



  • The new sword animations are broken, in the sense that they can be so easily manipulated to insane speeds (which makes them scratch hard on the limits of human reaction time imo) for too little mouse manipulation effort. What I’m trying to say is: a slight mouse movement downwards accellerates your sword like crazy and it has become much harder to read tip accellerations. So as you can’t really see much body movement (which also subconsciously tells you if someone’s going for hard lookdown or anti-gravity drag) or much of an animation, it’s hard to develop a consistent muscle memory for the new anims. There’s just less time to react. Paired with the inconsistent latency in this game an annoying combination to say the least.
    I was pretty convinced since day one these anims were introduced that these don’t match up to what your opponent is seeing from his perspective. 1st person anims <=> 3rd person anims. Tried comparing them but don’t really have the editing skillz nor footage of the old ones. As Schophux once said: “I get hit in the blink of an eye… fuck you scrub… THIS FUCKING SHIT GAME… BITCH AMON… OP FGT LS!! -Mister Universe Mayne has now abandoned the battle-”.
    [The editorial staff reserves the right to change quotes to it’s liking.]

    You can get used to them ofc if you just hustle enough on chiv, go full nerdage once more, get korean on that bitch.
    Just to be rewarded with a new overhaul patch a few months later, released exactly when you mastered it all :)



  • I refuse to believe that the messer is stronger than the sword of war and the longsword. Trade hits with the messer are insane but it’s also because of the 0.8 flinch, it’s something we should have expected to happen and we can’t forget about it. The windup nerf is the best option.

    Amon is right, i feel like it’s almost impossible to see accelerate sword overhead animations, you pretty much have to watch the body movement instead….makes me wonder if this game was balanced around a 60hz monitor lol



  • HTK, draggability and accels make it currently a way better option than SoW and especially the longsword.

    Windup increase should put it back in place.

    No to archer primary buff<:



  • Good post, good summary - TB should look at that. Pretty much totally agree with OP on everything except any kind of buff to archer primaries. Fuck that lol.

    Someone else said it - brandi slash needs a tad of slowing down still: and I also seriously think that polehammer does too much damage, and its seldom mentioned.

    The thing two shots knights with 2 LMBs, Stab + OH, and even a single OH reduces the knights health by like 75% - two overheads is almost OVERKILL with the amount of damage it deals. Its not slow and its not short. Handlehit fix makes the weapon less retarded but still: per shot it does too much damage.

    It shouldnt be able to two shot knight with LMBs, and it shouldnt be able to 2 shot knight with a stab/OH. More importantly, it should do less damage per OH, ofc should still 2 shot with those but, atm one shot leaves a knight basically a oneshot mop up from a dagger.

    Its OP, imo. IDK if its the general opinion but, its mine,



  • Agree that longbow & shortbow reloads should be faster. Also, saber stab should be a touch faster. You know the nerf went too far. Just sayin’
    #buffarcher2014



  • I am not a big archer player but what i see is that the only bow being used is the warbow.
    Possible fix: nerf warbow.



  • Nerf the brandi slash already so people can stop whining



  • Pretty much agree with everything shard said, i would just prefer the flail to stay shit, cause the animation are so fuking terrible i don’t want to fight that.

    +the spear in general are fuking annoying, not OP but fuking annoying, this sort of delay stab with the brandi, you never really know when the stab come because the animation is just shit and of course this stupid insta slash with every spear, this shit is so efficient than every noob with a spear spam it, who the fuck want to slash with a spear, common seriously, why this weapon have a slash in the first place.



  • @Triumphant:

    Good post, good summary - TB should look at that. Pretty much totally agree with OP on everything except any kind of buff to archer primaries. Fuck that lol.

    Someone else said it - brandi slash needs a tad of slowing down still: and I also seriously think that polehammer does too much damage, and its seldom mentioned.

    The thing two shots knights with 2 LMBs, Stab + OH, and even a single OH reduces the knights health by like 75% - two overheads is almost OVERKILL with the amount of damage it deals. Its not slow and its not short. Handlehit fix makes the weapon less retarded but still: per shot it does too much damage.

    It shouldnt be able to two shot knight with LMBs, and it shouldnt be able to 2 shot knight with a stab/OH. More importantly, it should do less damage per OH, ofc should still 2 shot with those but, atm one shot leaves a knight basically a oneshot mop up from a dagger.

    Its OP, imo. IDK if its the general opinion but, its mine,

    I see people calling the Pole Hammer OP all the time, but in reality in all the scrims/pubs I play in I rarely see anyone using it because it really is only an anti-knight weapon. The Zwei hander can 2 shot knights too, as well as 1 shot Archer+MAA, windup faster than a polehammer, more draggable than a pole hammer, and longer than a pole hammer. The only reason pole hammer is being called out is because it has an easier time 2 shotting knights, but that’s the whole reason for the weapon. Playing a team full of knights is a really hard task to do when there’s only a couple weapons that can 2 shot knights. I think the case with the Pole Hammer is that there’s too many knights that hate it that are calling for a nerf, and too few pole hammer players to counter argue it.

    With that said, I feel the Halberd is still just a shitty version of the Zweihander at the moment. The thing is ‘meant’ to be a stab weapon but the stab is the weakest part of it; it’s got a short release time, stabs shorter spear counterparts, and a fucklong windup time for such a light weapon. The only time people don’t parry my stabs is when it’s heading into their backs. The tracers are off for it as well so mix that with a very short release time and alot of miss-stabs happen.

    People will claim the LMB makes up for it but I don’t think they realize that unlike the sword LMBs, the pole arm LMBs are done while being held at the center of the body. What does that mean? It means the weapon is actually being shortened during a swing. You can test this yourself by standing close to an object ahead of you and making it barely hit while facing it with an LMB. now turn 90 degrees and try hitting it again. You can’t, because the LMB is an Oval, making the attack’s range only useful if you delay it to the end.

    Now I’m not saying the Halberd is in dire need of a buff but I do feel the stab needs to be worked on. The tracers need to actually match the weapon and I feel the windup time of the stab should be .6 (The maul’s longest windup time is .7 for some perspective)

    Video showing tracers being off - http://youtu.be/iw1pOBgny04
    video showing LMB reach difference - http://youtu.be/b4aBzqv4Rbc


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