Ideaologies



  • @zombojoe:

    a voluntary transaction, like going to the store to buy groceries

    taxes are an involuntary transaction, like say getting robbed at gun point

    how many people do imagine would pay their taxes if they were no longer taxes but subscription fees?

    How many people do you think would pay their taxes if they were voluntary?

    Taxes are needed to pay for vital services like education, healthcare(at least in UK.) etc. But yes, this is totally like being robbed at gunpoint…



  • @gndo:

    How many people do you think would pay their taxes if they were voluntary?

    Taxes are needed to pay for vital services like education, healthcare(at least in UK.) etc. But yes, this is totally like being robbed at gunpoint…

    Well that’s what happens when you don’t pay your taxes.

    Still taxes are necessary. Say for example New Zealanders stopped paying taxes. Then big movies would all be shit as the millions of NZ taxpayer money that goes into those movies would no longer be funding them.



  • its okay its totally fine to not have an answer



  • @gndo:

    How many people do you think would pay their taxes if they were voluntary?

    Taxes are needed to pay for vital services like education, healthcare(at least in UK.) etc. But yes, this is totally like being robbed at gunpoint…

    Yeah taxes are important. noone would pay taxes (or very few) if you dont need to.



  • Here in GB our taxes go to a good causes. How do you think those poor MPs get to work? or live?
    http://www.lymn.co.uk/images/content/2011%20Black%20ParkWEB1.jpg

    http://vesperblack.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/03_ritz_london.jpg



  • Your MPs get cars? Nice ones at that.

    Only the prime minister gets a car in our country.



  • @lemonater47:

    Your MPs get cars? Nice ones at that.

    Only the prime minister gets a car in our country.

    get out of here middle earth doesnt have cars



  • UG Lemon I know you think you are being clever but sadly you are just not smart enough to understand. Evil criminals will use any means to steal your stuff. There are lots of crimes where the criminal do not have guns. You act like every law abiding citizen is already guilty. Criminals do not give a shit about the law. If they want a gun bad enough they can get one illegally. Even on your little island, anywhere if they want them bad enough.

    Guns protect us from criminals and the government and whether they have guns or not. But the constitution, gives us this right to allow the citizens to protect themselves against all enemies, foreign (like you) and domestic (like Obama has been acting like). Yes I just called Obama a potential enemy of the constitution. I am not however, making any threats towards him in any way. Merely pointing out that if he usurped the government and let’s say he tried to suspend the constitution, it is not only the right but the duty of the citizens to rise up and defend themselves, the constitution and the rule of law, against a tyrannical government.

    Throughout history, when ever a government became tyrannical, the first thing the government did was to disarm it’s citizens. If the citizens were already disarmed, then is was easy for a government to oppress and kill it’s citizens by the hundreds of thousands if not millions in several cases.

    It is the citizen’s inability to defend themselves that allows tyrannical governments to slaughter and oppress it’s citizens. I am not sure how you cannot see this in history. Furthermore, why the fuck do you care what we do on the other side of the pond? What are you afraid of so much that a New Zealander would want to disarm the American population? I understand why my government and the United Nations would like us disarmed. But why do you even give a fuck?



  • watch out or the NSA might take note of you if you threaten obummer like that



  • So how many criminals have you shot?

    Its just that new New Zealand and the rest of the western world thinks the second amendment is a silly idea in todays world. As do many other Americans.

    You are paranoid. Your government won’t be tyrannical putting in some more gun restrictions. Anyone with common sense can see that if they tried doing that they would be trying to reduce gun deaths. The American government is the last government that would become tyrannical. The firstly need the army willing to oppress its own people.

    You are just digging the American stereotype deeper. Mah guns.

    You are incredibly paranoid. Paranoid people shouldn’t have guns.



  • @Darden:

    Yeah taxes are important. noone would pay taxes (or very few) if you dont need to.

    Well technically, the US tax code is voluntary. If you never get a social security card and never file taxes, you are not subject to the tax laws. You have to mostly pay cash for everything at that point. This is how illegal immigrants do it. Not only that but 50% of Americans pay ZERO in federal taxes. On top of that, Americans had no permanent income tax till 1913 and the 16th amendment.

    America had few taxes till then and they were mostly import tariffs and to pay for necessary wars at the time. Funny how things still managed to get built and done for over 100 year without income taxes…… Hmmm business people built what was necessary out of their own pockets and local taxes were mostly sales taxes to pay for what was needed locally.

    Most people would have no problem with taxes if the money was correctly spent and wisely used. 70+ years of wealth distribution for the war on poverty has mostly been a failure. Sure are poor are considered rich compared to other countries poor but we sure do have a shit ton of them.



  • Could of dropped the war on terror to focus on your war on poverty.



  • poor people in america right now have a higher standard of living than the middle class did in the 1970s

    they are subsidized to be poor for vote buying, thats part of how obama got so many votes ( and how hillary will as well)

    poor people will never vote for the political party that promises to cut down on welfare hehe, you can actually vote for a living nowdays jeez its ridiculous and its really no different in any other socialist western country (which ones arent lmao?)

    this is how the roman empire destroyed itself for anyone that cares about history, but if there is anything to be learned from history is that nobody learns from history :cower:



  • @lemonater47:

    So how many criminals have you shot?

    Zero, but I have friends who have. One of my friend’s dropped and killed a man who was convicted of domestic violence as he attacked his own wife beating her half to death and threatened to kill my friend with a knife. But it is still pretty rare considering all the people I know and if you don’t include my cop friends and military friends.

    Its just that new New Zealand and the rest of the western world thinks the second amendment is a silly idea in todays world. As do many other Americans.

    We dont care what you or the rest of the world thinks about the 2nd amendment for starters unless you are wanting to try to take it away internationally. Only ignorant chicken shit Americans that, like you lack the knowledge, history, understanding and significance of having the means of protecting one’s self, family, constitution and nation against it’s enemies.

    There are more examples of guns protecting people than there are of them killing people in this country. The problem is that you only hear the negative and sensationalist stories that get propagandized.

    There are millions of guns in America and every day those guns to their job and no one is killed by those.

    You are paranoid. Your government won’t be tyrannical putting in some more gun restrictions. Anyone with common sense can see that if they tried doing that they would be trying to reduce gun deaths. The American government is the last government that would become tyrannical. The firstly need the army willing to oppress its own people.

    You are just digging the American stereotype deeper. Mah guns.

    You are incredibly paranoid. Paranoid people shouldn’t have guns.

    HAHA the last government? Really? You dont know a whole lot do you?

    **1. The Trail of Tears and many cases against native Americans
    **2. Japanese Internment Camps
    **3. Project MK Ultra
    **4. Tuskegee
    **********5. Compulsory Sterilization
    6. Alien and Sedition Acts
    7. Suspended the writ of Habeas Corpus
    9. Waco
    10. Ruby Ridge
    11. Assassinations of US citizens without due process
    12. Spying on it’s citizens without warrent or probable cause
    13. Some would say 911 - but I am not one of them
    14. The Patriot Act
    15. NDAA
    **
    This is again where your ignorance and lack of understanding is paramount. I am not paranoid. I am actually quite confident in knowing that I and all the other gun owners are by default keeping the government in check.

    A great example of this was just a month or so ago when the government tried to surround a farmer for not paying some grazing fees. The GOV showed up armed to the teeth with military weapons and equipment expecting to start another Waco or Ruby Ridge. Guess what happened? Citizens and citizen ran militias came from all over, legally armed as well and went down to protect and support that rancher. Guess what happened next? The government backed down completely.

    Since you have no clue about American history, may I suggest looking into the Waco incident and Ruby Ridge where the government shot and killed lots of people, on purpose. It also happens quite often when over zealous police officers over step their bounds and take the lives of innocent people. But that is another issue.

    There are already enough gun laws, many of them are completely useless and don’t work as intended like back ground checks. Lets be honest. You dont care about gun death rates, you dont even care about death rates at all, you mostly want to argue and troll.

    SO lets compare actual death rates by homicide, suicide and intentional death, per country and see just where the US sits….

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_death_rate

    Hmm interesting… The US sits just below the middle thus about average for all the other nations while Chile is about dead center (no pun intended) NZ is a smudge above the middle but you have a higher suicide rate. HMMM so much for stopping death by suicide and you have far less guns. American suicide death are 67% done by a gun yet your suicide rate is much higher. Care to explain that one? Yet you are so concerned about gun deaths in America… LOLS



  • @zombojoe:

    poor people in america right now have a higher standard of living than the middle class did in the 1970s

    they are subsidized to be poor for vote buying, thats part of how obama got so many votes ( and how hillary will as well)

    poor people will never vote for the political party that promises to cut down on welfare hehe, you can actually vote for a living nowdays jeez its ridiculous and its really no different in any other socialist western country (which ones arent lmao?)

    this is how the roman empire destroyed itself for anyone that cares about history, but if there is anything to be learned from history is that nobody learns from history :cower:

    BRAVO what I have been saying all along….



  • Retsnom, gotta ask: why the hatred for socialism? Countries with markedly more socialist policies than America, such as Germany or Finland or the Scandinavian nations, possess some of (if not the highest) standards of living in the world. Moreover, they posses high degrees of social mobility, freedom, and other such positive attributes. Clearly, socialism works for them. Is America so different?



  • @Brutus:

    Retsnom, gotta ask: why the hatred for socialism? Countries with markedly more socialist policies than America, such as Germany or Finland or the Scandinavian nations, possess some of (if not the highest) standards of living in the world. Moreover, they posses high degrees of social mobility, freedom, and other such positive attributes. Clearly, socialism works for them. Is America so different?

    Well for starters, personal liberties and personal responsibility. Second, cost. The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money. Third, scale. You are talking nations that are smaller than a single state within the united states. History shows that it actually doesn’t work in most cases. Germany, Finland and Scandinavia is not as prosperous as you may believe and the hows and whys are even more interesting.

    You must also understand that the more socialist America has become the lower in status on many levels, we have become.

    “The National Socialist Party will prevent in the future, by force if necessary, all meetings and lectures which are likely to exercise a depressing influence on the German state.” Adolf Hitler

    “The line between fascism and Fabian socialism is very thin. Fabian socialism is the dream. Fascism is Fabian socialism plus the inevitable dictator.” John T. Flynn

    But the biggest problem is that if you disagree with the state, the state has control because you are dependent upon it and are forced to comply.

    Yes America is and has always been very different till as of late since we have become more and more socialistic because those ignorant and dependent upon the system realized they could vote themselves welfare. America is/was the exception. America gave the power and responsibility upon the individual so that they could self rule.

    The government is supposed to be a servant to the people not the other way around. It was the first time in human history that the individual had more rights and power than a government. That is a powerful idea about individual freedom that everyone across the planet wants to come here for the opportunities that that freedom provides.

    Stealing from those that are prosperous and produce and giving it to those that don’t has never been a good idea. The idea of Robin Hood is a myth. It would be better to emulate those that are successful and to teach how to be successful than to teach you are a victim of your circumstances and you have no responsibility.



  • Show me how Germany, Scandinavia, and Finland are not prosperous. And show me how that is connected to socialism. Also, your American exceptionalist viewpoints are demonstrably false. Show me how Adolf Hitler’s nationalist rhetoric possesses any connection to modern Germany. Well, other than the fact that some modern Germans are neo-Nazis, but there are more neo-Nazis in America itself than there are in Germany. In addition, the individual American never had more power than the government. Nor was it a model of individualism, or democracy. In the wake of our revolution, we put down popular revolts of our own, such as the Whiskey Rebellion. Ones which operated under the very same principles that had only years previously been used to justify American seccession from British colonial rule. And of course, property qualifications for voting (some of which, if I recall correctly, persisted into the 19th and 20th centuries), as well as slavery, and a representative system rather than a direct democracy all pointed to a system that privileged pre-existing wealth, and status, over any true respect for the will of the people. Even in its earliest stages under the Articles of Confederation, the American government was probably less “individual-oriented” than the sort of tribal voting systems observable in medieval Iceland, or the direct democracy that was at times practiced in the Athens of Classical Greece. Those are just two examples, and I am certain there are many more. I’m not saying we should practice Athenian democracy, or all start wearing tunics, carrying swords, and voting on communal matters at the Althing. But those were examples of societies that gave the individual more power than the state. Indeed, in many pre-modern societies, one could argue that the state as we understand it did not exist, and power was concentrated far more in the hands of individuals.

    As for this:

    “It would be better to emulate those that are successful and to teach how to be successful than to teach you are a victim of your circumstances and you have no responsibility.”

    You’re constructing a false dichotomy. Aiding people through welfare systems does not preclude teaching them certain moral qualities. Receiving money from the government for any myriad number of reasons does not make someone irresponsible, nor does it necessarily follow that it creates some sort of moral lassitude which culminates in a collapse of the society as a whole. Nor does aid from the state make one a slave to the state. Or at least, it makes one no more a slave than would accepting a wage from an employer.



  • More examples of guns saving people?

    Nope.



  • in all honesty though welfare subsidizes bad behavior, a good example are the natives in canada who receive ludicrous amounts of money simply for their ancestry

    so much that they can afford to live on the government money alone

    i’ll let you guess how prosperous they are doing as a community right now

    there are also moral implications in this kind of transaction, the simple act of giving welfare to minority groups is an idea so incredibly bigoted that people refuse to talk about it entirely, it would be too painful to mention

    this money is being given for free because we have this mad assumption that because of your race, ethnicity, religion, culture, even genetic makeup, means that your needs must be accommodated by others because you are disadvantaged

    in other words we give people free money because we believe they are inferior and incapable of providing for themselves

    its not a surprise that the nationalist socialist party constantly created welfare programs


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