Bringing back the bubble?



  • I think vanguard was just saying with DW tracers, delays and accelerations do less damage, so to hit the “sweet spot” you have to hit in the middle of your swing, which anyone can parry, therefore making drags less effective compared to feints.



  • @Sophax:

    Not realy. Its all situational. Feints cost stamina while drags don’t. Feints are more punishable than drags because you can actually flinch a feint and drags become a gamble since you don’t know if he’ll accel, drag of feint.

    Efficiency depends on you making the right moves in the right situation. For example situations where you’re low on stamina or just won’t feint again someone who can read them.

    You base your argumentation on either anti feint sentiments or you don’t know any better(don’t have the experience of high lvl play), anywho in either situation is a result of your ignorance.

    The current feinting is far from ideal and can be improved upon. I’ve also made suggestions on how:

    -to make feints a bit more reactable in facehug range and

    -how to make them punishable without hittrading

    • With the introduction of the sweetspot system there should be a small damage reduction for attacking after a feint IN combination with an overal higher stamina pool.

    Lol you copy pasting this whenever someone mentions feints?



  • @gndo:

    I think vanguard was just saying with DW tracers, delays and accelerations do less damage, so to hit the “sweet spot” you have to hit in the middle of your swing, which anyone can parry, therefore making drags less effective compared to feints.

    I start my rational from the premise that everyone uses feints and drags interchangeably. If people never use feints then there is a fundamental difference in how you view balance as a whole which may lead to different conclusions. People who don’t use feints rationally speaking don’t know the intricacies of its usage. They view it soley as an “free hit” button. There are more mindgames and range games in play that they never experience.

    For example.

    When you feint someone you need to be close, in facehug range. If you are facehugging you are more likely to not pull off maximum damage thus it balances each other out. You trade range/timing for damage and a hit. If you fall for a feint that isn’t in facehug range than that is a flaw in your defense and you should be punished rightfully so.



  • @Sophax:

    Not realy. Its all situational. Feints cost stamina while drags don’t. Feints are more punishable than drags because you can actually flinch a feint and drags become a gamble since you don’t know if he’ll accel, drag of feint.

    Efficiency depends on you making the right moves in the right situation. For example situations where you’re low on stamina or just won’t feint again someone who can read them.

    You base your argumentation on either anti feint sentiments or you don’t know any better(don’t have the experience of high lvl play), anywho in either situation is a result of your ignorance.

    The current feinting is far from ideal and can be improved upon. I’ve also made suggestions on how:

    -to make feints a bit more reactable in facehug range and

    -how to make them punishable without hittrading

    • With the introduction of the sweetspot system there should be a small damage reduction for attacking after a feint IN combination with an overal higher stamina pool.

    I based my opinion on my experience and its totally true that my level of skill is not even close to yours. I’m aware of my ignorance and thats the reason I posted on this forum, to hear what veterans have to say about that… After your explaination, I’m more inclined to agree man. It makes sense.

    Also, I’m not antifeint, never been. Aways liked the possibilities that the feint mechanics give to this game. But I also like the fact that swing manipulation gives a wide range of fighting styles to players, and my fear was that this DW tracer sistem could fuck with this.

    Plus, the bold part is so true it hurts.

    @Sophax:

    I start my rational from the premise that everyone uses feints and drags interchangeably. If people never use feints then there is a fundamental difference in how you view balance as a whole which may lead to different conclusions. People who don’t use feints rationally speaking don’t know the intricacies of its usage. They view it soley as an “free hit” button. There are more mindgames and range games in play that they never experience.

    For example.

    When you feint someone you need to be close, in facehug range. If you are facehugging you are more likely to not pull off maximum damage thus it balances each other out. You trade range/timing for damage and a hit. If you fall for a feint that isn’t in facehug range than that is a flaw in your defense and you should be punished rightfully so.

    Yeah, this makes sense too. But how does zweihander playstile would be with this sistem? I mean, it’s range, draggability and damage are what makes the weapon. Wound’t the DW tracer sistem nerf it because of that? I mean, accels, delays and backhits would deal less damage, feinting would also have more chance to do less damage. How could you become more unpredictable while playing this weapon at its best?

    I think it would place this sword as a suport one, wich is not bad and makes sense too.

    @gndo:

    I think vanguard was just saying with DW tracers, delays and accelerations do less damage, so to hit the “sweet spot” you have to hit in the middle of your swing, which anyone can parry, therefore making drags less effective compared to feints.

    Yes that is true my friend, that’s what I meant, thanks. I’m sorry for my english guys!



  • @Sophax:

    I start my rational from the premise that everyone uses feints and drags interchangeably. If people never use feints then there is a fundamental difference in how you view balance as a whole which may lead to different conclusions. People who don’t use feints rationally speaking don’t know the intricacies of its usage. They view it soley as an “free hit” button. There are more mindgames and range games in play that they never experience.

    For example.

    When you feint someone you need to be close, in facehug range. If you are facehugging you are more likely to not pull off maximum damage thus it balances each other out. You trade range/timing for damage and a hit. If you fall for a feint that isn’t in facehug range than that is a flaw in your defense and you should be punished rightfully so.

    makes sense, good argument



  • @Sophax:

    When you feint someone you need to be close, in facehug range. If you are facehugging you are more likely to not pull off maximum damage thus it balances each other out. You trade range/timing for damage and a hit. If you fall for a feint that isn’t in facehug range than that is a flaw in your defense and you should be punished rightfully so.

    While this makes sense, with DW tracers even with facehug feints, after the feint, you could simply look up to delay an overhead sufficiently for it to hit in the middle of the swing, you could look away with an LMB swing, and could look up and drag the stab down onto their head at the right time, all to hit that “sweet spot” after they fail to read the feint.

    So drags would only have any use when you facehug feint, they wouldn’t be as effective on their own. And by this I don’t mean in a no-feint fight, I like to use both drags and feints in fights.



  • the day Sweet spot shit gets into MW is the day i uninstall this game



  • Hidden, shitty code was my exit strat

    NA uninstalls before EU, adapts to changing meta ahead of schedule

    more at 7



  • @gndo:

    While this makes sense, with DW tracers even with facehug feints, after the feint, you could simply look up to delay an overhead sufficiently for it to hit in the middle of the swing, you could look away with an LMB swing, and could look up and drag the stab down onto their head at the right time, all to hit that “sweet spot” after they fail to read the feint.

    So drags would only have any use when you facehug feint, they wouldn’t be as effective on their own. And by this I don’t mean in a no-feint fight, I like to use both drags and feints in fights.

    That’s a good point as well but if drag your attack after a feint even if you got your opponent to panic parry they should be able to parry again and block your attack. I’m actually starting to warm up to the DW tracer idea, it would have to be done really well though.



  • @Dog:

    That’s a good point as well but if drag your attack after a feint even if you got your opponent to panic parry they should be able to parry again and block your attack. I’m actually starting to warm up to the DW tracer idea, it would have to be done really well though.

    Well no because you aren’t delaying the attack that much, just delaying it at facehug range so that it hits in the middle of a swing for maximum damage. This would be same as a normal swing which can be successfully delivered after a feint.

    Personally I don’t want this DW hit tracer system in CMW, but each to their own.



  • @CRUSHED:

    the day Sweet spot shit gets into MW is the day i uninstall this game

    Haven’t there already been days where you’ve uninstalled/vowed to uninstall the game? Why should one more of those be any different?



  • The “bubble” concept should be scrapped entirely. This aspect of the game was fine from beta in 2012 up until summer 2013. It would be nice to roll back to an earlier version in which we didn’t bounce off of people and were actually able to punch people in the back of the head without hitting invisible force fields.



  • ^hell yeah, miss those days……



  • http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=267599336

    This is very relevant to the discution. Camponês Imundo’s mod that add DW tracers to MW.



  • Tracers in DW are way too extreme. It just limits the playstyles and makes using skillful moves much less rewarding, and directly makes the game less fun to play while also lowering the skill ceiling in individual play. Nonononono. IF there were to be dynamic damage values AT ALL, reductions should only apply to the very first frames of a swing AND no more than -15%.



  • @Monsteri:

    Tracers in DW are way too extreme. It just limits the playstyles and makes using skillful moves much less rewarding, and directly makes the game less fun to play while also lowering the skill ceiling in individual play. Nonononono. IF there were to be dynamic damage values AT ALL, reductions should only apply to the very first frames of a swing AND no more than -15%.

    Yes, I’m not fully convinced about it too… Would like to see more opinions over this



  • @Vanguard:

    Yes, I’m not fully convinced about it too… Would like to see more opinions over this

    DW tracers suck and would also be a balancing nightmare for weapons.


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