MAA's depend too much on their dodge and stab spam



  • Hey all

    From my gameplay experience everytime I meet a semi-skilled MAA in a team game or in duels they are realy annoying to fight against. Its not realy fun to be continiously on the receiving end of their stab feint/spam.

    There isn’t much you can do against a MAA who ALWAYS has the initiative by either dodging out of range and hitting you with a very fast and unreadable stab feint or just letting you tire out stamina because everytime you miss or try to close in you have to CFTP/FtP which costs a load of stamina.

    It just seems that the mortality rate of a semi-skilled MAA with nerfed archers will just plumit and will be even more powerfull because the only way a MAA dies if he makes a mistake or you gamble with some luck.

    They rarely depend on footwork because all they need to do to get the upperhand stamina, range and initiative wise is to press an ‘I win button’.

    I’m not saying that they should be nerfed into oblivion I’m only saying that they should be put more in line with the other classes when it comes to using footwork and feinting abilities.

    My suggestion is to nerf the dodge stamina wise by making it cost alot of stamina. Perhaps something like 30% of stamina bar.

    The dodge just creates too much of a counter attack opportunities so that it not realy a defensive move anymore.

    The ability to continiously stab spam is also an issue when it comes to playing this class.

    The weapons that are problematic are the weapons that aren’t supposed to have an all that powerfull spammable stab.

    HWS

    Morningstar

    Daneaxe

    Flanged Mace

    I think the above mentioned weapons should be nerfed stab wise and buffed in other areas, slightly.

    Eventhough the norse and broad are sword they still depend too much on their stab attack. Since its the most powerfull one. I would nerf the windup slighty so that it won’t be the most usefull attack in every situation.

    Thank you for your attention.



  • @Mr.Lion:

    The weapons that are problematic are the weapons that aren’t supposed to have an all that powerfull spammable stab.

    HWS

    Apparently you aren’t aware of the proper usage of HWS. This should enlighten you.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AXaBundB2A



  • The problem is that you have most likely less than 400h in chiv and you don’t play maa, so you have no clue how some changes can affect the class and the balance in general and of course you’re not objective, try again.



  • @Edmund:

    The problem is that you have most likely less than 400h in chiv and you don’t play maa, so you have no clue how some changes can affect the class and the balance in general and of course you’re not objective, try again.

    uhh
    http://forums.tornbanner.com/showthread.php/19693-The-5-Dodge-stamina-nerf-seriously



  • @Albert!:

    uhh
    http://forums.tornbanner.com/showthread.php/19693-The-5-Dodge-stamina-nerf-seriously

    I ask for a buff cause it’s more luck based atm, +i post this after trying just a bit but i can’t fuck around like i used to vs people like amon now, i’m not even sure i would win now, i almost can’t feint, i can’t miss once or i’m stam fucked basically, you need to be a monster maa to still beat most of the people now, nerf stamina more on dodge is really really stupid.

    And plz don’t post stuff like this, like it’s easy to **** everyone with maa when you’re not even able to do it lol.



  • @Edmund:

    I ask for a buff cause it’s more luck based atm, +i post this after trying just a bit but i can’t fuck around like i used to vs people like amon now, i’m not even sure i would win now, i almost can’t feint, i can’t miss once or i’m stam fucked basically, you need to be a monster maa to still beat most of the people now, nerf stamina more on dodge is really really stupid.

    And plz don’t post stuff like this, like it’s easy to **** everyone with maa when you’re not even able to do it lol.

    So you’re saying you shouldn’t have to be a monster (good) MAA to beat other good players? The kills should just fall into your lap?



  • So you’re saying you shouldn’t have to be a monster (good) MAA to beat other good players? The kills should just fall into your lap?

    No i’m saying we shouldn’t nerf a class because there is like 2/3 monster maa in europe who can beat most of the people, it’s very hard and a bit random cause of the low stamina, the fair solution is to buff cftp and dodge.



  • MAAs are fine. L2Fight MAA



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    MAAs are fine. L2Fight MAA

    this so much i cry evry tiem



  • Just like messer is balanced right? I guess it’ll have to sink in but then it’ll be too late.



  • @Mr.Lion:

    Just like messer is balanced right? I guess it’ll have to sink in but then it’ll be too late.

    here we go again…



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    here we go again…

    I don’t see how anyone can defend this spammy playstyle that isn’t realy fun or engaging to play against as a non MAA.

    Balance and stuff is cool but when you have weapons like HWS and other spammable stab feint weapons does it realy matter?

    Surely this isn’t the optimal place of MAA to be. The meta is just go broad and stab spam and dodge how fun and challenging is that.



  • Good MaAs don’t need dodge at all. Their overbuffed footspeed is OP enough. They’re anti-fun just like archers.



  • Whilst I can beat most MAA players here in AUS they are just simply annoying and not fun to fight. It is far more fun to fight a skilled Vanguard or better yet, Knight player. Archers love getting killed but.

    I generally avoid them when I can since more often then not, it isn’t worth the time spent killing them unless you get an early hit or they are terrible mma’s.



  • @Toll:

    Whilst I can beat most MAA players here in AUS they are just simply annoying and not fun to fight. It is far more fun to fight a skilled Vanguard or better yet, Knight player. Archers love getting killed but.

    I generally avoid them when I can since more often then not, it isn’t worth the time spent killing them unless you get an early hit or they are terrible mma’s.

    Inb4 HUEE MUH MAA

    Why don’t we keep the MAA’s mobility but make them more fun to fight against? Instead of a continious pain in the ass.

    First thing would be to deal with the highly effective feint spammable stab technique that honestly needs to be toned down. I agree with the weapon Mr.Lion mentioned but I don’t know how to make them all unique and viable. There are too many weapons in each branch and too few factors to alternate between.

    Secondly would be the a small lockout after a dodge so that they get rewarded for leaving your range but you cannot punish someone for missing you because of a dodge because its not meant for that.

    Lets go over the Pro’s and Con’s of dodging

    Pros:**

    -You control the fight

    -**Don’t get hit-Don’t get feinted

    -You have the initiative ,almost everytime, of the fight because of your superior speed on foot as wel as on your stabs

    -Stam drain your opponent by making him miss and CFTP everytime.

    -When someone misses after you’ve made them miss. They will either have to CFTP or gamble. When they CFTP you anticipate it and just stab feint them. So you actually promote gambling and randomness.

    -Create distance between you and your opponent

    -Time to regen health

    -Time to regen stamina

    **Cons:

    **-It costs stamina, that you can easily regens since you controll the pacing of the fight.

    The suggestion of adding a small cooldown before you can ATTACK again would make the dodge a defensive only move, like it should be. If you want to attack someone you use footwork LIKE YOU SHOULD and not depend on this all to powerfull “I win” button.



  • If you know what you’re doing, MAAs can be beaten, even when you’re a knight. Although it is quite easy for MAAs in duels in general compared to other classes.

    But I think that dueling is one of the strengths of the MAA that it should keep. It’s 1v1ing power is quite balanced in team fights, and the constant backpedal regen waiting game that everyone hates in duels is not really applicable in team fights, if an MAA decides to do this in a team fight, he ends up getting his team fucked up.

    I think right now, all that needs to be added is a fix to the dodge exploits, such as dodge out of flinch + immediate attack. When that happens it will be much more tolerable.



  • PRO Tips on how to kill MAA!

    #1 - Stop using short/fast weapons unless you can actually keep up with and keep track of MAA

    #2 - Stop reposting (counter-attacking) MAA unless you can actually keep up with and keep track of MAA

    #3 - If Knight, then use Longsword or Messer, unless you can use your weapon to actually keep up with and keep track of MAA (easier than people make it out to be)

    #4 - If Vanguard, then use Greatsword or Zweihander, unless you can use your weapon to actually keep up with and keep track of MAA (lookdown repostes are a godsend)

    #5 - If Archer, then use Heavy Crossbow and spam “LOLOLOLOLOLOLO” in chat every tome you kill a MAA (they will eventually quit the game and commit suicide on their own)

    #6 - If MAA, then good fucking luck. When in doubt, dodge the fuck away.



  • MAA are fine. Nerf them anymore and they’ll be trash. Just fix HWS and BS.



  • @Flippy:

    MAA are fine. Nerf them anymore and they’ll be trash. Just fix HWS and BS.

    +1

    I would rather see the bugs ironed out and stab tracers for BS looked at before we go and nerf an entire class needlessly,

    Is a good MAA almost unbeatable in a pub? sure, they can be but almost any good player can be unbeatable in a pub.

    As it stands right now in a comp 6v6 match maa are fairly balanced, if they choose to use their power to dodge away and regen stam or just run away then they screw their own team more than the enemy team.

    With that said I really do hope that maa is fixed so you can’t dodge out of flinch, flinch exists for a reason. Besides that maybe tweak HWS a small bit and adjust BS so its not such an insane god tier stab spam weapon and I would call it a day with maa balancing…



  • This is like saying a Knight uses its higher stamina and damage reduction too often to win.
    Learn to feint, stop hating it. When you feint, let them dodge, follow with an attack when they go to stab because they assume you’ll attack. Never riposte. Job done.


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