Archery Re-work



  • I can tell by the forums today that people are not really happy about how strong the Archer class still is. Though out of my own opinion, I’d say Archer is kinda balancing between being either Weak, or straight up overpowered, so by that, I think a straight forward nerf would just result in making the class weak, and that’s not what we are trying to achieve by re-balancing something, is it?

    But yeah, the only way Archery is going to be balance, would be if we re-tweak it completely.

    I haven’t had time yet to bring up that much detail or suggestions, but I am just going to put on in here real quick.
    Around Early beta of Deadliest Warrior, there was this very noticable inaccuracy penatly for moving, which will put an archer in a state where they have to choose to stand still for great accuracy, or sacrifice the accuracy for a bit mobility to possibly evade other projectiles like throwing axe or ect, least it will make the archers having to stand still, rather than either moving from side to side, jumping or possibly back pedling while shooting.

    There should be a different amount of penalty for each Archer weapon class, for example the silly run&gun tactic with Crossbow should severly be nerfed if movement accuracy were implented, and that you need to ‘recover’ the accuracy before firing, so if you are playing with Crossbow, and you go from running to aiming, you might risk missing your shoot because you have to recover your accuracy after the penalty.

    Throwables like Javelin should have by default a sort of inaccuracy, but that they won’t be too greatly affected by moving around too much, so that it will be inaccurate at distance, but they won’t be penalitized for moving around too much.

    Bow should be a hybrid, but the jump shooting should definently make the accuracy suffer.



  • this already works in singleplayer in C:MW

    its broken and TBS refuses to fix it, the crosshair even displays the accuracy penalties that should be happening



  • Meh. No accuracy penalties, please. That kind of shit has no place in this game, imo. A significant damage nerf would be sufficient. (And I wouldn’t say no to flinch removal for arrows)



  • A good way to balance archer would be to remove their range weapons



  • That’s a another method I’d appreciate



  • From what I’ve played of AoC the javelin was spot on and just should be transitioned.



  • I definitely think there should be a greater focus on standing still when shooting as Wolfy says. Archer vs archer needs to be fast and efficient, or allow for other classes to be able to actually move forward without this much punishment. There should be a period of gradually getting accuracy back after moving rather than instant, too, so you don’t just stop moving right before you fire.



  • @CRUSHED:

    A good way to balance archer would be to remove their range weapons

    Could you please just stop posting here aslong as you don’t have anything serious to say than “Hue, remove their primary weapons.” This would be like us suggesting to remove the resistance that the Knight has, simply stupid.

    Please just stay away if you don’t have anything serious to say Patrick.



  • @SOC:

    I definitely think there should be a greater focus on standing still when shooting as Wolfy says. Archer vs archer needs to be fast and efficient, or allow for other classes to be able to actually move forward without this much punishment. There should be a period of gradually getting accuracy back after moving rather than instant, too, so you don’t just stop moving right before you fire.

    Yes, imagine CS if you had 100% accuracy while moving, I think this will add more depht to the Archer Vs Archer fights too.

    Perhaps give a better edge for Shortbow if it should fight versus a Warbow if let’s say Shortbow had a tiny bit less penalty for moving than warbow.



  • That’s a good idea, regarding the shortbow. I like that idea.

    I think crossbows need to be reworked to facilitate counter-archer maneuvers more than general combat.



  • @B4RK:

    Meh. No accuracy penalties, please. That kind of shit has no place in this game, imo. A significant damage nerf would be sufficient. (And I wouldn’t say no to flinch removal for arrows)

    accuracy penalties were how it worked in AOC afaik and archers were not OP in that game

    also stamina drain from pulling back the bow



  • @zombojoe:

    accuracy penalties were how it worked in AOC afaik and archers were not OP in that game

    also stamina drain from pulling back the bow

    Definitely implement a stamina drain for bows.


  • Global Moderator

    @zombojoe:

    this already works in singleplayer in C:MW

    its broken and TBS refuses to fix it, the crosshair even displays the accuracy penalties that should be happening

    Yes but you can’t hit anything at more than 10 metres without it being completely luck based.



  • @lemonater47:

    Yes but you can’t hit anything at more than 10 metres without it being completely luck based.

    well if you stand still for a half a second its like it is now while moving

    it should be way harder to hit shots with their current damage values

    if projectile damage was nerfed 9/10 archers wouldnt contribute more than a melee player only using throwables and secondaries, shooting at long range is already pretty lotto



  • Most archers contribute nothing anyway, in particular on the attacking side. Whilst an archer may get a kill, if he is standing way back that kill doesn’t really put any forward pressure on the opposing team. Only when that kill directly results in your team mates pushing forward does it help, otherwise it is pretty much wasted time for both you and the enemy you killed doing nothing for your team.

    When a melee character kills a target he generally moves forward, applying forward pressure soon after the kill, not so the archer. This is the greatest problem of archers in pub games. Only the good archers, the ones that score in the top 5 generally apply forward pressure directly or indirectly. Usually that is 1 of 4 (or lol 6) archers.

    Put a ranged damage nerf in, so that after medium range the damage from a projectile drops of significantly, forcing the archers to get closer to battle to have any chance of getting a kill thus at least they apply some forward pressure on the objective.



  • A system in which the damage of the arrow or bolt decays over distance might be an idea worth considering. Though how would such an idea been implemented.



  • @zombojoe:

    accuracy penalties were how it worked in AOC afaik and archers were not OP in that game

    also stamina drain from pulling back the bow

    There were no accuracy penalties in AoC, but there was stamina drain from pulling the bow back.

    AoC had better projectile drop. The arc of your shot actually mattered and you could only make long distance shots by arcing, especially with crossbow and of course javelins. In Chivalry projectiles tend to go the same (very long) distance and then drop like a stone no matter how you arc them. I think that’s one of the biggest factors making archery too easy/rewarding in Chivalry, and IMO a lot less fun too.

    There’s also the fact that bows just had way less damage, and the crossbow took a fittingly massive amount of time to reload. Javelin was the most viable archer setup because it had strong melee.



  • @Cerebral:

    A system in which the damage of the arrow or bolt decays over distance might be an idea worth considering. Though how would such an idea been implemented.

    I think TB strongly suggested in early alpha that something like that would never be implanted cause they didn’t want long distance shots to be punished, but I agree that there should be one.



  • @wildwulfy:

    I think TB strongly suggested in early alpha that something like that would never be implanted cause they didn’t want long distance shots to be punished, but I agree that there should be one.

    I supported that reasoning, with the caveat that long range shots should be harder to land. ATM they really aren’t.



  • A short summary over ideas and features:

      • Bows:
    • Accuracy penalty on movement
      An accuracy penalty for moving around while aiming, which will expand the crosshair which creates a gap between the crosshair lines that decides where the arrow might travel.
      A min penalty and max penalty difference fro all three bows, Min is of course 0 at 100% accuracy, while max could be like 15 or so, making the penalty and gap between the crosshair lines build for the more groundspeed the player has, jumping and sprinting should increase to max right away.

    • Accuracy Recovery
      This decides how fast the accuracy can be regained by standing still, or moving a bit slower. Combining this and the Accuracy penalty on movement for Sprinting/Jumping will render it so that the user have to wait a bit longer before its safe for them to fire, or they could take their bet and fire with a wide crosshair gap. (This could be a good idea of preventing the run & gun tactic with Crossbow, rendering their shots inaccurate till the wait

    • Stamina drain on string draw/hold

      • Crossbow
    • Penalty for being hit
      Causes the bolt to drop out from the Crossbow. Resulting in that the user loses a bolt from ammo pool and has to add a new bolt to the crossbow (Just a short reload animation where they just add the bolt, not needing to pull back the string again ) This can be used in a scenario for example where a Shortbow runs into a Crossbow, Shortbow has the string drawn and manages to fire a shot at the Crossbow before the Crossbowman takes aim to fire. Crossbowman gets flinched and the bolt drops out from the crossbow. Rather than for the Crossbowman to just re-aim after getting out of flinch and shot down the Shortbowman. He has to actually re-insert the bolt to his crossbow which he has to put some time into, where the Shortbow would have reloaded and drawn their string and ready to fire again. I think this would be a good idea to punish Crossbows.

    • Accuracy penalty on movement
      Crossbow should have a higher accuracy penalty when moving than Bows

    • Accuracy Recovery
      Accuracy recovery should be slower than the Bow aswell, making the run and gun tactic with Crossbow a bit nerfed.

    • Stamina drain on aim?
      Aiming causes the stamina to be drained because the Crossbow has to be put to aiming position (This would probably not make any sense, but I’m just throwing out the idea. The reason why it wouldn’t make sense is because it would go against one of the big pros about crossbows in real life. Its pros is that a crossbowman has the advantage over bows where they can hold their crossbow with bolt ready to fire for a long time, while bowman will struggle to keep the string drawn for a longer amount of time)

    • Stamina cost for reload
      15-20 stamina cost for reloading the crossbow

    As for javelins, I’m not sure what to bring up, but here is some features I think could be nice for archery weapons, to re-balance them a bit, I think damage nerf should still be applied perhaps.


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