Ninja ninjato balance?



  • Hey, so I just registered to the forums to discuss the balancing of this certain weapon, the ninjato. I am not sure if this has been discussed recently, but I didn’t notice any topic about this when I looked through. If there is an up to date discussion about this, please link it to me and lock the thread.

    To me, the weapon seems balanced enough when in hands of a medicore or defensive player, but as soon as a skilled player uses the ninjato aggressively, it turns into a killing machine in duels. Sure, you can take down a ninja in teamfights, but I find that in duels, nothing counters an aggressive ninjato-ninja other than another ninjato-ninja. The counterstab on the sword is way too fast imo. If it could be tweaked slightly- doesn’t need to be a huge nerf, it would make a significant difference. Yes, it’s possible to parry it in time but you have to parry pretty much IMMEDIATELY after he parries your attack. If you do parry immediately there is also the risk of the ninja simply not attacking before your parry is down. Also, getting kicked by a ninja leaves you with very little time to react to a ninjato stab.

    Swings and overheads aren’t really overpowered, it’s mostly just the stabs of the sword.

    What do you guys think? Remember, this is only in the case of a fight between two skilled players. A mediocre or defensive ninja with ninjato isn’t exactly op.



  • Yeah it can be a beast of a weapon, but a truly skilled player counters with a longer weapon like halberd or dory, and lets the ninja roll around and swing at the air till he’s out of stamina, then goes for the quick kill. Also, wakizashi is another small, lighting quick sword that samurai can counter with. Counterstabs and drags are pretty good on the Knight mace too, and pirate shouldn’t have too much trouble: hold him off with sabre, when you get a hit in and he rolls away to shuriken you, shoot him.

    I also find the DW playerbase to be pretty casual for the most part, especially due to the increased speed creating artificial skill like the super-deadly LMB spam. Most people don’t expect matrix swings or 360 spin attacks or ducks, so if you throw one of those into the mix you usually fuck people up since they’re not used to seeing it in DW.



  • Yup. Oy hit in on the head.

    The only weapon anybody can really complain about is the viking spear – too fast, damage too high, too spammable en masse, and no real downside or weakness like the other spears.



  • The fact that the Viking spear combos makes it literally the best weapon in his arsenal. I almost never use it because it feels too easy. At least it’s not throwable.



  • @PissedOffConsumer:

    Yup. Oy hit in on the head.

    The only weapon anybody can really complain about is the viking spear – too fast, damage too high, too spammable en masse, and no real downside or weakness like the other spears.

    I can complain easily about Mace, Naginata, Falcata, and everythingVikingexcepthammer.

    I want them to make Mace either slower, or faster, but not both, (lightning thrust) also the shield kick is almost impossible to see coming, just looks like he’s blocking. Naginata is annoyingly damaging for how easy it is to drag, and the speed at which you can reposte going from insanely slow to rather fast. Falcata is annoying simply because it does ridiculous damage, has very long reach, and putting in conjunction with a ridiculously fast shield bash makes it a very irritating thing to have to deal with. Atleast with Kopis/Xiphos you know that EVERYTHING is fast, so you can be prepared for a shield bash.

    Viking is broken. There should never be a retarded mechanic like ‘spam to spam better’. Norse sword is way too draggable, dealing way too much damage, for having really good animations, and being incredibly fast. Same thing with the axe, only the axe is way easier to drag around a shield with. Hatchet is unbelieveably fast if used properly, I met a player that could literally kill you by making you parry the projectile delivering an instant overhead. You couldn’t do anything, because if you ate the projectile, instant overhead, if you parried it, instant overhead. And their two handed weapons are retarded, they’re like transitioning between a ferrari and a small 2 cylinder Russian sedan in terms of speed, with extremely good dragging capabilities. The only exception I’ll make, is the hammer, for actually taking some skill to use effectively.



  • @TheMightyAltroll:

    I can complain easily about Mace, Naginata, Falcata, and everythingVikingexcepthammer.

    You can complain all you want but it won’t make you right. These other weapons aren’t as blatantly OP. Surprised sarissa isn’t on your list, that thing is the king of stab drags, and a sarissa Spartan can clean up any tdm or lts game. Since you’d rather complain about mace and falcata, I’ll assume you don’t know what you’re talking about.



  • @Oy:

    You can complain all you want but it won’t make you right. These other weapons aren’t as blatantly OP. Surprised sarissa isn’t on your list, that thing is the king of stab drags, and a sarissa Spartan can clean up any tdm or lts game. Since you’d rather complain about mace and falcata, I’ll assume you don’t know what you’re talking about.

    Bro, Sarissa isn’t even remotely good. It’s only good against bad players. Have you ever tried to beat a skilled Nodachi Samurai with a Sarissa? Or a Wakizashi Samurai? Or a Xiphos Spartan? Or even a god damned Broadsword knight? It’s incredibly difficult unless your opponent is dumb enough to fall for feints with a Sarissa. I actually want to see them buff the damned thing, because at high level, I almost see no usage of it. It has the same range as Viking spear, it’s slower, does less damage, and it doesn’t even have a sweeping attack. How exactly is it OP?

    Also, who the hell plays TDM?



  • Lol I could probably sarissa you to death.



  • @Oy:

    Lol I could probably sarissa you to death.

    Sure. Teach me the mighty Sarissa, oh great Spartan lord master.

    Also, I recently fought Citizen. My god.



  • Huh. I don’t understand why you guys have problems with knight mace. I have no problem dueling a knight mace user, however from my personal experience the best duel loadouts are: Ninjatoninja, nodachisamurai and viking with a single onehanded sword. Ninjatoninja already explained. And countering an aggressive ninjatoninja isnt just as easy as picking halberd or whatever. He doesn’t swing furiously at you while missing all the time if he is experienced, he will not let you get away from him. I tried using halberd, you can’t even turn around to do a backwards overhead before you get stabbed in the back by that sonic sword.

    Nodachi is imo amazing (slightly OP) because you can change the pace of the weapon in an instant due to the insanely fast stab on that sword. I mean how can you even stab so fast with a sword that is longer than yourself? Usually, weapons will sacrifice speed for reach or vice versa, but nodachi has both due to the stab. A skilled nodachi user can decimate you by dragging about the weapon and suddenly stabbing you. It’s hard to explain just how tough it is fighting a skilled nodachi user. You must fight one yourself (there is a guy called “ALWAYS WANNA EAT PEOPLE” who destroys me with nodachi, kills me more in duels than 1400 hour+ knights do). The stab on the nodachi isn’t just fast, but it’s not the easiest to parry either since the weapon is so long and can be moved about so aiming at the tip of the weapon isn’t as easy as other weapons.

    Now for viking, this isn’t AS strong as the previously mentioned loadouts, but I thought I would just include it as one of the strongest duel loadouts because it really is. I myself find the only issue with it is that when you start learning how to use it, you will probably miss a lot of your attacks if you play in first person like me (I use third person for halberd etc.)… However, when you get good with that loadout, the viking sword becomes very strong. As TheMightyAltroll stated, it’s draggable, has good animations and deals a fair amount of damage considering its so fast. The speed and animations of the sword makes it hard to parry too. You would think that it wouldnt be a problem but it really is. So combine this loadout with a facehugging viking who barely ever misses you have one of the strongest duel loadouts (IMO). A good example is a guy named Hodor from the Øni clan. He is a beast with this. Now I don’t really think this loadout needs to be nerfed but it’s still strong. I really want to see nodachi and ninjato get nerfed slightly. Viking spear I have NO issues with. You guys are free to add me on steam and duel me with either viking spear or knight mace and let’s see how it works out (Unless you have like 1500 hours in the game then I am probably dead haha)

    About the DW playerbase being casual, yes there are casual players but there is a certain community of pro players, mainly the DW clans around. I don’t know if you guys play on US servers, but on EU servers, the main clans are right now Øni and some clan named CC. Then you have the occational strong player that isn’t in a clan (I would include myself in this list even though I am nothing compared to the bigger boys in the clans like Hodor and a guy named Bashed. I only have 250 hours in chiv but I can deal with 500 hour+ guys no problem. I main a knight with sword in one hand).



  • But then again, with the viking spear I see why you complain. I can deal with a guy that has about 900 hours in the game who uses the spear but there might be players out there who are far better with the spear than him.



  • The main problem with the viking spear is that it has 2 different stab attacks, 2 different slashes, it does a lot of danage and it can combo. And since it’s a Viking, the speed builds up as you combo, and with the, correct footwork, aim and timing, you can make very effective use of this. The only.downside it has is that it isn’t throwable, which isn’t really a real downside. I don’t really think it’s totally OP, but it’s very strong in skilled hand_s, moreso than the hammer due to its range. Btw we should play together pyjama, it’s always nice to have friends that play DW as well as MW.



  • Oh it’s actually pretty rare that I play MW, I think I am like lvl 20 in that, but we can play sure, I haven’t seen anyone in DW named Oy before, is that not your name or do you just play on US servers?

    Also I take back what I said about the sonic mace, it’s super strong :p just didnt fight someone capable with it.



  • Yeah mace is really good. I don’t play very often and I don’t use Oy on steam, which is probably why we haven’t played yet. Don’t worry, next time I’m in town I’ll hop on steam and add ya. Then I’ll show you the true meaning of OP. Muhahahaha



  • Macs is pretty dam good and OP in large numbers. Once my knight team liked my customisation as I looked like a crusader with the shield and mace. So they all copied my look as best they could and picked up the mace and shield. So there were 6 pretty much identical made and shield knights running around. I think the fact we all looked the same running around screaming made us win regardless of what weapons we would of used but it was pretty hilarious. Stab overhead.



  • Mace, Naginata, Viking Spear, Falcata. All nerf worthy, imo.



  • @TheMightyAltroll:

    Mace, Naginata, Viking Spear, Falcata. All nerf worthy, imo.

    Mace needs less boop power
    Naginata isn’t that OP at all. No-dachi is OP naginata isn’t.
    Viking spear needs slower combos and longer windups.
    Falcata needs slower combos and slower recovery times.



  • @lemonater47:

    Mace needs less boop power
    Naginata isn’t that OP at all. No-dachi is OP naginata isn’t.
    Viking spear needs slower combos and longer windups.
    Falcata needs slower combos and slower recovery times.

    Nodachi isn’t remotely OP. The difference being, Nodachi takes skill. It’s 80% slow, with a semi-fast thrust.

    Naginata is all over the map. It’s slow, while simultaneously being fast. It has long range, and RIDICULOUS damage for how much it’s timing can be screwed with. They either need to fix the animations, or nerf it’s damage.

    And honestly, I’m tired of having to work thrice as much to kill a Laginata dragger than it takes him to use the stupid thing.



  • @TheMightyAltroll:

    Nodachi isn’t remotely OP. The difference being, Nodachi takes skill. It’s 80% slow, with a semi-fast thrust.

    Naginata is all over the map. It’s slow, while simultaneously being fast. It has long range, and RIDICULOUS damage for how much it’s timing can be screwed with. They either need to fix the animations, or nerf it’s damage.

    And honestly, I’m tired of having to work thrice as much to kill a Laginata dragger than it takes him to use the stupid thing.

    No dachi is the most draggable weapon in the game. Which would be fine if its windup wasn’t incredibly fast. I don’t mind dragging but dat windup.



  • @lemonater47:

    No dachi is the most draggable weapon in the game. Which would be fine if its windup wasn’t incredibly fast. I don’t mind dragging but dat windup.

    Sword of War, is by far the best, and most draggable weapon in the game. Go fight Badgers before talking to me about the Nodachi. I eat Nodachi players for breakfast.


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