The Quarterstaff and why it needs a buff



  • The Quarterstaff and why it needs a buff

    This is gonna be a lengthy analysis of the quarterstaff , before discussion comes up I have now 150+ hours of continues Quarterstaffing behind me and i feel confident to have the complete picture of this weapon.
    But I claim to make adjustments to content and grammar depending on feedback.
    This is also not a trollthread but you can still speak your mind.

    The Quarterstaff is a Man at Arm only blunt weapon and before we can make a serious discussion lets look at the stats

    WindUp/Release/Combo/Recovery W+R+C

    Overhead 0,425/0,4 /0,6 /0,6 1,425
    Slash 0,4 /0,4 /0,6 /0,6 1,4
    Stab 0,4 /0,35/0,65/0,6 1,4

    As you can see the quarterstaff is tidily surrounded by the MAA main weapon Norse-sword and Broadsword

    WindUp/Release/Combo/Recovery W+R+C

    Broadsword

    Overhead 0,4 /0,35 /0,65/0,55 1,4
    Slash 0,45/0,35 /0,6 /0,55 1,4
    Stab 0,45/0,3 /0,65/0,55 1,4

    Norsesword

    Overhead 0,35/0,4/0,65/0,5 1,4
    Slash 0,35/0,4/0,65/0,5 1,4
    Stab 0,45/0,3/0,65/0,5 1,4

    Most people that encounter the Qstaff the first time don’t notice that it has very similar timings as the Broadsword/Norsesword
    For now lets keep in mind the Norse has faster windups in general and the broad a little slower

    **
    Range**

    The Qstaff has a stab of similar length to the broadsword, that’s a plus,
    but the range on the overhead and slashes is horrible.
    You literally cant hit a fleeing archer with a slash.
    You will curse this weapon every time you bounce of someone’s bubble and miss your slash.
    Anyone worth their salt can and will dance away from your slashes/overheads.
    (The reason for this is while touching the opponents bubble you cant accelerate, so then you start your attack they just sprint away from you)
    The Overhead is even worse then the slash because of its vertical nature, its even more prone to evasion and its easier to block
    The tremendous difference in range between stab and over/slash also means you cant combo on a long range stab because you are not gonna connect.
    So your best bet is to double stab. But this obviously means you are not in the initiative and you can be traded.
    For the comparison: Broadsword acceptable range > Norse low range >> Qstaff no range
    ->remember missing is huge for a class that dies with one hit to a lot

    Damage or Hit to Kill

    Over/Slash/Stab
    Qstaff 50Blunt 45Blunt 45Blunt
    Broad 70Cut 60Cut 55Pierce
    Norse 65Cut 55Cut 55Pierce

    Here is there the rotting meat is!
    Before we can continue you got to know about the bread and butter techniques of the quarterstaff.
    You will normally run in from outside of your opponents range and open with a stab, provided you have enough speed to get in range you can combo into a slash.
    This is a kind of deceptive slash that even experienced players often fail to block. From where its really up to you if you wanna combo further or do some tricks.
    Remember you always have to open with a stab, except then already in face-hug-range.
    You have a fair chance to land a headshot with your first stab, but after that the Qstaff tends to always hit something other then the head.
    So then can you use the overhead? Pretty much only as a repose and on the stunned, its just so easy to block and telegraphs so well. Did i mention its range and evade-ability?

    ->remember you deal 45Blunt and get prob one headshot
    (well everytime you dodge out you can make another stabheadshot but an opponent who lets you do this, is just not worthy of notice)

    Vs Archer

    You deal 36dmg or 45 on a headshot even an overhead+headshot only deals 50
    You are doomed to 3Hit except you hit the legs twice then you are fucked.
    –-
    The Broad/Norse 2hits archer every time

    Archer have a high chance to 2hit a MAA with their shortswords, they tend to get backstab bonus on every hit they drag past your block or just do a do 2 headshots
    The Shortsword is initially faster and combos with W+R+C of 1,275 , kinda unfair considering it has similar range.(Who is not trying to get this nurfed)

    Vs Maa

    You deal 34dmg you can 3 shot but its going direction 4hit
    –-
    The Broadsword tend to allways 2hit MAA and the norse can do it in a stab overhead combo.
    Later i will go deeper into this

    Vs Vanguard

    You deal 32dmg only a headshot can bring you into 3 hit range
    –-
    The Broad can double headshot a Van to death, the norse can do the same on stabs. But it happens only in like every fourth duel

    Vanguards kill you in 2ish

    Vs Knight

    You deal 27 dmg a very likely 4 hit except on 2 leg hits or 3headshots.
    –-
    Broad and Norse kill Knights very likely in 4 hits except on 2 leg hits or 3headshots.

    Knights kill you 2ish

    **
    Pre-roundup**

    compared to Broad/Norse
    –>similar timings to broad and norse
    –>slash/overhead range outclassed
    –>damage outclassed against archer, maa , vanguard

    **
    Indepth Duell**

    Vs Archer

    If they see you they will shot you and then you are dead ;( no shit
    You can change to shield and shortsword if you have no pot, but you prob didn’t train your skill with that weapon.
    Every MAA is outclassed by a good shooter and will see no land.
    But you can go Shield and Norse…
    If you get in close combat unharmed you can normally outplay the archer with luck but it still hurts that you can only 3 hit them with the Qstaff.
    I mean, how much time do you have for one archer before his team helps him out? Especially if he plays defencive.

    Vs Maa

    Its comes down to stabs in this duel, its just coin flipping on equal skills.
    If in 4 coin-flips there is only 1 Broad/Norse hit then you win.
    That is a 25% chance to win on equal skills, yes by that much are you outclassed.
    And that is not even counted that you cant use your slashes/overheads in this match up
    Or that your opponent can dodge out of flinch and get a free hit (this is huge because they have better hit to kill)

    Vs Vanguard

    If they dance they tend to make it hard for you,not being able to consistently 3hit a Vanguard is also a problem.
    You are basically fighting a faster knight with a better, longer weapon.
    This is why knights feel underpowered.
    Beyond that Vanguard can still pull the same shit he could do against a broaduser.
    Your best shot is baiting an attack and getting free hits. Its just hard to follow up on a hit because experienced players run away so you miss your combo.
    The Broadsword is better on connecting with the combo and has potential better hit to kill

    Vs Knight

    Its like fighting a slower vanguard ;) that has less range.
    Except then they go shield and norse, then they are super op.
    You suffer less from having not so many slashes failing but you have less options then you are not facehuging

    Pre-roundup

    –>Archer and MAA counter the Qstaff, against Vanguard the Broad would be a little better choice, and against knights its kinda equal

    In the actual game

    Not being able to flinch multiple people with a slash is a huge negative, then being hard countered by half the enemy team…. yeah!

    **
    Darkforrest**
    You are not gonna be able to shove that cart without being shot to death
    And you cant one hit the family members!!! (i think)

    StoneHill
    You cant one hit the peasants!!!
    Then you cant shove the ram without getting shot
    And doing trillion hits on the king is not gonna be feasible too

    So at what is the quarterstaff good?

    The best thing is people don’t play often against it, i know that is pathetic.
    They just underestimate the range, and don’t understand that it is a weaker Broadsword.
    The Qstaff is actually a handle (duh) and it got evil handlehit.
    The Overheads start behind you, the swings in front of you, even the stabs start behind you, this is kinda optimal
    Animations anyone? Yeah after you block it looks like you are winding a swing up.

    How not to fix the quarterstaff

    don’t lower its windup, we are just gonna get a broken dagger again
    don’t lower W+R+C it will result in people not being able to block after a miss-timing
    don’t let it drain more stamina, game is lame enough as it is.

    **What i propose

    1)the small buff**

    dmg from 50/45/45 to 55/50/50
    you can now 2headshot an archer, 3shot a vanguard
    Recovery from 0,6 to 0,45
    Its realy needed for a weapon that misses so much.
    Also the Norse has 0.5 recovery

    2)A more complete buff

    dmg to 65,55,55

    You can not 2 shot a knight!

    You can not 2 slash/stab headshot a vanguard but you can do 2 overheads where one is a headshot

    Now were it gets important 2overheads kill an Archer or 2headshots or overhead+headshot

    Against MAA its gets even harder, you need 2 hits, one has to be an overhead and one also needs to a headshot

    Recovery from 0,6 to 0,45

    And the overhead release time from 0,4 to 0,55 so you can run some more while it is active, and giving you more choice in your timings.
    as a trade off its now even easier to interrupt your combos(people will know what I mean)
    So that W+R+C doesn’t get to high we got to reduce the combo into overhead from 0,6 to 0,55

    The First proposal buts vanguards into their place and gives the Qstaff the desperately needed recovery timings

    The Second gives you a chance to 2hit archers and MAA, also it makes the overhead more viable, normally you wouldn’t ever combo into this thing.

    Even variant 2 only brings it close to the broadsword, because there will be a shitstorm once this thing is actually viable, got to make it stronger in small steps.
    All in all this is is not pushing the maximum strength a MAA can have up because as I said broadsword is still stronger.



  • Quarterstaff in my experience tends to be a pretty good weapon for overwhelming people with really quick attacks and killing them before they react, similar to daggers. I land overheads and swings quite often, the bubble.isn’t very noticeable anymore. I always open with a stab then combo around their parry timing. If you increase the damage too much, you risk overbuffing it.



  • Quarterstaff has the longest stab out of any of the MAA choices, while being 0.4 windup (one of the fastest). The speed of this attack, plus the range, plus the arc of the attack gives it the most superior initiative when comparing it to any other choice for MAA. Hitting with a maximum range stab, you can most definitely follow up with an overhead (not sure where you were going with that).

    It’s not meant to quickly dispose of archers or MAA.

    The deceptive animations allow for more pseudo-feints if done properly, allowing for great stamina conservation. It also retains itself as a 2-handed weapon, taking less stamina to block attacks with it.

    The HTK on vanguard and especially knight is generally the same when comparing to broad / norse.

    QS does not need a damage buff, or a speed buff.

    What QS needs is 1.0 or 1.1 flinch times exclusively. A support weapon.



  • Guess I’ll chime in before Nova comes in here and starts asking for 1.1 flinch time for the QS. :)

    I feel it’s fine, you use it to overwhelm people quickly with stabs and overheads, slash against people trying to out footwork you. Once the enemy interrupts your rhythm and starts to block your QS, that is when you should start side dodging. Sneaky stabs with the QS are brutal, especially if you can land consecutive headshots.

    The only thing I could say about it which needs improving would be its overhead tracers, they feel really weird at times and will completely miss people who are very close to you. Maybe it’s because its overhead starts much closer towards the top of your screen and I am dragging it across my body too far and too early.

    EDIT: GOD DOMMOT NOVA



  • Tracers of Broadsword stab

    Tracers of Quarterstaff stab

    If blue is a hit the Broad has a longer range if not quarterstaff wins by half a foot
    –-------------------------------------
    1.1 Flinch is kinda over kill, you can just start combo feinting and do horrible horrible things to people
    In a TO/LTS this is okish , but i didnt want to make it the king of duels

    overwhelming people with really quick attacks and killing them before they react, similar to daggers

    The thing is you cant 3hit someone before he reacts, a zwei can do that.
    And W+R+C of 1,4 is hardly a dagger its the same as Norse and Broad with less dmg



  • The quarterstaff also has quite confusing animations, that is a Pro.

    The stab is one of the best lead in attacks of the game. Excellent speed, excellent range, acceptable damage. Great use for flinching when playing as support, great to finish of wounded soldiers.

    I hardly use the slash, it has such short range, I only use it if the overhead or poke isn’t going to land the hit.



  • The quarterstaff LMB actually gives you two opportunities to hit an enemy. The left side of it and the right side of it way earlier.



  • @lemonater47:

    The quarterstaff LMB actually gives you two opportunities to hit an enemy. The left side of it and the right side of it way earlier.

    That reminds me of literally every other melee weapon in the game. Weird.



  • I main Quarterstaff and I don’t think it needs a buff. Facehugging and slash ripostes are your friends, you forget it also has the bonus of being a 2h weapon, therefore benefiting from 2h stam drain and flinch time (quotation needed). Using the qs againt MaA and Archers is foolhardy; use the saber or the shortsword. The qs is really a support weapon and designed to frustrate the living hell out of knights and vanguards. No buff needed.



  • I didnt forget it has 2 handed flinch times , i thought it was a given that a 2hander has those.
    The thing is then if i wanted to support i could do it with the norse or broadsword
    which also “frustrate the living hell out of knights and vanguards”
    Their is no such thing as support after TSB botched archer class.
    The standart for support is killing half the enemy team, archers set this standart.



  • 2h flinch time = 1h flinch times currently. So that point is moot.

    It was perfect when it had 1.0 flinch time though, so bring it back exclusively for QS :D (Shoutoutz to DokB :D:D:D)



  • Qstaff LMB needs different animations. On stab and overhead you position one of your hands on the middle of the staff thus giving you more range but it doesn’t do that for the LMB thus making it’s range shorter than it needs to be.



  • Lol buffs. Lets get the WARSAW nerf fest going first. But seriously flails and warhammer need a buff. Not the qstaff



  • @swagfox:

    Lol buffs. Lets get the WARSAW nerf fest going first. But seriously flails and warhammer need a buff. Not the qstaff

    Flails don’t need much of a buff. A slight buff in the wrong place for fails can quickly flip them to OP. The way flails are. They are much better than they were before but not because of the shield upgrade at all blocking hasn’t really changed but the updated animations made the flails so much better. They only need a very slight buff.


  • Mod

    @lemonater47:

    Flails don’t need much of a buff. A slight buff in the wrong place for fails can quickly flip them to OP. The way flails are. They are much better than they were before but not because of the shield upgrade at all blocking hasn’t really changed but the updated animations made the flails so much better. They only need a very slight buff.

    The flails fucken suck, I’ve never played with a shitter weapon in my life and I’m one to use shit weapons. Quarterstaff is fine, because it’s attached to the most mobile and agile class on the battlefield. I rarely play man at arms, and I still score decently with a quarter staff. Whenever I used to play man at arms I’d only ever use the norse or broadsword. I play knight all the time, and the leg speed of the knight, mixed with constant knockback and no reach using flail is shit. Flails are only half decent 1v1 and that’s it. The heater shield is also a piece of shit and swings constantly go directly through the center of the shield. I’ve been using heavy flail, been right in someones face and LMB’d and it’s ghosted through them. It’s happened heaps. Many times the other player will also say “WTF” because they see it happen. It’s like flails still had a handle hit removal applied to them or something… They don’t need to be buffed so much, their tracers just need to be fixed.



  • @lemonater47:

    Flails don’t need much of a buff. A slight buff in the wrong place for fails can quickly flip them to OP. The way flails are. They are much better than they were before but not because of the shield upgrade at all blocking hasn’t really changed but the updated animations made the flails so much better. They only need a very slight buff.

    Well since we already derailed to flails… Yes flail animations are unique and (mainly because nobody uses them) confusing. But for the most part I’ve got no problem parrying them and neither am I finding too much success using them. The light flail is not at all as fast to be rewarding enough for it’s low damage, the exact opposite, too slow and if you manage to finally get a hit through you have to get two or even three more, good luck. Heavy flail is better but it is still lacklustre and inferior even to warhammer.

    Quarterstaff on the other hand, I’ve got great difficulties reading it’s attack and so parrying them. I also often get caught off guard with its stab range. I suppose it’s mainly because nobody uses them and so I can’t get used to them but as for now, quarter staff is fine in my opinion.



  • I think heavy flail can two-shot Knight with headshots. I used to like them before the tracer update as a shitty but fun weapon. Since then I don’t have quite enough experience with them except to say that you’re purposely handi-capping yourself if you pick one. Sucks that Knight has the only shitty CU1 weapon. Even sling is better.



  • both flails and QS are astonishingly OP

    you guys on drugz?



  • I.used to do well with them, I admit the shield punch is a great interruptor, but it’s pretty unreliable as far as actually connecting goes, and good players can easily block the flail swings.



  • heav flail is pretty shit

    light flail and QS are god tier


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