Zoom Scripts and Feint to Parry Binding: Chivalrous or No?



  • So there are a number of things you can do in this game that are arguably either a subversion of the mechanics or just optimally utilizing the mechanics. The two I am primarily thinking of are:

    Zoom scripts
    and
    **Binding FtP to your parry button.
    **

    I have heard both sides argued and was wondering if we couldn’t get a community discussion on it (I believe there might’ve been one in a thread where someone posted a script but I think it got taken down) as I believe it has serious ramifications.

    So yeah: What are your thoughts? This is primarily about competitive play since I feel that comp players are most effected (either those that use these advantages or those that encounter other comp players that use these advantages). Are these even advantages (I’ve heard it argued they aren’t). I’ll wait for other folks to make arguments to try to keep this initial post completely neutral.

    **PROS
    **- The game is dead anyway, so does it really matter?

    • The advantage gained is minimal enough that it essentially doesn’t matter.
    • There is precedent for binds and non-exploitative scripts in competitive FPS
    • Zoom scripts: can get you killed due to FOV restriction.
    • Zoom scripts: Mouse sensitivity weirds out so it actually makes people inaccurate

    CONS

    • There is precedent in other games that scripts and such are regarded as cheats that are banned in pro games.
    • These scripts and binds undermine the skills of players.
    • A developer communicates their intent in the game via the options they present in configuration menus and such. Options not communicated by these implications should not be taken advantage of.
    • Zoom scripts: Yield an actual advantage. There are a reason scopes exist: because magnification makes long range targets easier to hit. Any mouse sensitivity weirdness might be compensated for by on the fly mouse sensitivity changes or I’d imagine might also be able to be compensated via script.

    Central arising questions:

    What type of skill does Chivalry want to measure? It is an FPS (though perhaps FPCombat or FPC would be more appropriate) but it is also a game about melee combat, which is better explored in the fighting game genres. Each community treats binds differently because of the type of skill the genres seek to measure.
    What level of advantage over people that just play the game with the dev communicated options is warranted if any?
    Does community opinion on the matter affect whether they should be use (would it be one thing if it was assumed everyone used them or didn’t care as opposed to if everyone viewed them as cheats)?



  • i think its fine ive been using cftp and zoom scripts since 2012

    totally not biased <



  • I use both, and dgaf since this games ded anyway lol



  • @Le:

    I use both, and dgaf since this games ded anyway lol

    i always had a feeling you used zoom scripts

    well played



  • Only zoom for snipers should be allowed if its in the game config as Q3. Other wise they are all questionable.
    Scripts are a cheat and often banned in pro games and comps. Even scripted rocket jumps or strafe running
    at very high speeds was an instant ban and word sent to all clans ( leaders ). Imo scripts undermine skill
    players.



  • Updated the pro con list. Please let me know if you are dissatisfied with my summaries. Also, I almost put under Pros: “Zombo uses them.”

    If lots of people use both, is it at a point where people doing these things is expected?



  • Although I don’t like zoom it is a feature in Q3 with a fov of 25 I think. It is my opinion that if its not
    in a games config settings then its not valid to used it. What ever the game. If however it says +zoom
    with a slider then thats ok within those parameters. If a game developer made a few acceptable scripts
    as part of a game in its config screen . If none exist then that should exclude them from the game and
    vac bans be implemented fast.



  • Why do you think everything should be balanced around Quake?

    ON topic: I personally don’t mind if people use these scripts or not.



  • binds are not scripts

    What is this thread.



  • Switch FOV is a bind. So fair



  • Its not about binds being scripts. My logic is if its on the menu then its legal. For example you don’t see bind button
    parry+attack = F , this is were scripts come into play using multiple buttons and movements to basically cheat.
    A cool macro feature if TB made would later would be quite ok though, ie after picking class and loadout you could
    bind that to one of the F1 to F12 buttons by checking a box on menu.



  • Never used either of them and I don’t really care if anyone else does.



  • I think it’s sort of lazy, it’s not like that extra mouse click is so hard that you just have to make a new keybind for it.
    But the advantage gained is so low, I never really understood why it has been a topic of discussion.



  • like nova said, bind and not a script



  • I think I would be hesitant to call it a script if it didn’t contain more than like, 2 commands.



  • To the folks saying that binds are okay: Of course some binds are acceptable. There is a reason why there is a keybinding menu. The question concerns binds that are not on the menu. If you’re saying that these types of binds are acceptable as well, then the question is: Why? If you’re saying these types of binds aren’t okay, the question again is: Why?

    So far the pro side is just: “Who cares because the game is dead?” and “The advantage is so minimal it doesn’t matter.” Is that it? Are there any responses to Loin’s position?



  • @HeightofAbsurdity:

    Why?

    Because binds outside of keybinding menu have existed for over 15+ years now and are accepted as legitimate in any serious competitive fps.



  • Binding one’s keys at the console is normal as I used to bind all my keys fast in Q3 at console. The binds are suppose to
    be the same keys on menu, other binding and joining a series of keys separated by say bind a "+attack;+moveup;pause;pause;
    lookdown;weapon4;+attack;moveup;pause. etc is a script regardless if its in this or other games. Often scorned at.



  • @CRUSHED:

    Because binds outside of keybinding menu have existed for over 15+ years now and are accepted as legitimate in any serious competitive fps.

    What about zoom scripts? While some scripts have been allowed in competitive FPS, scripts that are seen as exploitative are commonly banned.

    Also, while outside of keybinding menu binds have historically been allowed in FPS, binding a combo in a fighting game would commonly be seen as cheating. Coordinating multiple button presses in an efficient manner is a good bit of the skill gap in many of those games. Is Chiv just more of an FPS that doesn’t care to measure that type of coordination to the same degree, but rather put its emphasis solely on real-time strikes and other skill-based facets?



  • @HeightofAbsurdity:

    Binding a combo in a fighting game would commonly be seen as cheating. Coordinating multiple button presses in an efficient manner is a good bit of the skill gap in many of those games. Is Chiv just more of an FPS that doesn’t care to measure that type of coordination to the same degree, but rather put its emphasis solely on real-time strikes and other skill-based facets?

    Fighting games dont have a console to enter said bind commands. Allowing console commands to execute intended game options is an option set forth by the dev.


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