Here's why MAA is OP.



  • @Xylvion:

    And your opponent lost 25-30 stamina depending on if he’s using a 1h or a 2h.
    I want the old dodge stamina cost back, but to do that dodge has to be fixed. Meaning what you mentioned has to be removed so it doesn’t happen. Dodge is essential in team fights, you sincerly need it. But you can dodge after making a mistake and that’s silly.

    dodge after getting hit as well, means you cant ever burst down a MAA unless you got a 1htk weapon

    or they were low on hp to begin with



  • Let us make the stamina loss calculation a bit correct, and here is to consideration with some facts:

    Factors:
    Parry cost: 7 stamina (usually around that number unless the Man at arms is using something else than his beloved Bsword)
    2H miss cost: 15
    Feint cost: 15
    Dodge cost: 20

    Step 1
    MAA Attacks the Knight and the knight manages to parry the blow. result: Knight loses 7 stamina
    Step 2
    Knight follows up with a counter-attack, which the MAA easily dodged out of its reach: Knight loses 15, 22 in total while Maa loses 20
    Step 3
    MAA then attacks again, forcing the Knight to either take a free hit and lose HP, or perform a CFTP to parry the next blow: Knight loses 15 for feinting, and 7 for parrying. So it is…

    44 Versus 20 stamina difference, unless I fucked up my calculation and the Man at arms controls the flow of the battle everytime, and can stop it anytime he like.

    I hope TB realize that dodge was a fucking bad idea and just remove it, it has been since the start, and has always been a problem. Open the fucking eyes for once plox.



  • If we removed dodge people wouldn’t play maa nearly as much, which would totally make the game worse right? I mean who really wants to play a balanced class? Such nonsense…



  • @wildwulfy:

    Let us make the stamina loss calculation a bit correct, and here is to consideration with some facts:

    Factors:
    Parry cost: 7 stamina (usually around that number unless the Man at arms is using something else than his beloved Bsword)
    2H miss cost: 15
    Feint cost: 15
    Dodge cost: 20

    Step 1
    MAA Attacks the Knight and the knight manages to parry the blow. result: Knight loses 7 stamina
    Step 2
    Knight follows up with a counter-attack, which the MAA easily dodged out of its reach: Knight loses 15, 22 in total while Maa loses 20
    Step 3
    MAA then attacks again, forcing the Knight to either take a free hit and lose HP, or perform a CFTP to parry the next blow: Knight loses 15 for feinting, and 7 for parrying. So it is…

    44 Versus 20 stamina difference, unless I fucked up my calculation and the Man at arms controls the flow of the battle everytime, and can stop it anytime he like.

    I hope TB realize that dodge was a fucking bad idea and just remove it, it has been since the start, and has always been a problem. Open the fucking eyes for once plox.

    This is why you attack from a gamestate that doesnt allow a succesfull dodge…
    also you dont have to cftp you can just parry…



  • @TheFunnySide:

    This is why you attack from a gamestate that doesnt allow a succesfull dodge…
    also you dont have to cftp you can just parry…

    If you don’t CFTP I will stab you with my Broad/Norse or smack you with my Quarterstaff. You can’t “just parry” because I dodged your riposte so, if you don’t combo, you’re going to be in the ending animation lag and be left wide open.

    @Sir:

    It’s not feint immunity: someone feints, you parry then dodge, they attack and miss. You’ve lost 20 stamina, are now WAY out of range to attack and now your opponent can chase you down and prevent you from regenning stamina.

    MAA actually regens quite a decent amount before a Van/Knight is able to sprint up and do something. Plus, feinting costs quite a bit of stamina. I think you will actually lose less stamina dodging a feint -> backpedaling to recover than they do feinting -> sprinting forward to chase, assuming they anticipated you dodging backwards instead of sideways or even dodging at all.

    There’s also another really silly thing you can do: dodge-in-active-parry -> riposte while dodging lol.

    At any rate, it’s “feint immunity” because the MAA doesn’t have to choose between dodging or parrying against an attack. Instead, he follows an IF() statement.

    Knight begins windup.
    MAA starts parry:
    IF(Knight feints, for TRUE: MAA Dodge, for FALSE: do nothing, parry the attack).
    Potentially follow up with riposte.

    There’s no feint reading needed. Against ANY sort of attack, I will simply put up a parry first. If I notice that I’m about to be feinted, I simply press V before the parry’s active window ends. The most “damage” they can do to me with feinting is me losing 20 stamina and putting distance away from them, meaning I will simply regen some stamina before they are able to reach me. If they don’t feint me, I will not dodge and instead clash their blade, giving me the initiative with a possible riposte or delayed counter-attack follow up. If I choose the latter, I can feint. Additionally, they have no such luxury and must be forced to read/guess my attack on whether it’s a feint or not (good luck when I’m using Quarterstaff or if you have over 60 ping).

    It dumbs down MAA combat. There’s no risk-reward choice to be made between dodging and parrying. The default is parry, the follow up will be dodge if you get feinted, holding the parry if not, followed up with you retaking the initiative.

    I’ve beaten some of the better MAA’s out there 1v1 because of this stupid trick multiple times. Most of them were honorable/ignorant enough to not abuse this mechanic, so they were susceptible to my basically-impossible-to-truly-read Norse/QS feints. Meanwhile, I’m immune to every single one of their feints, and they often lose the stamina war too (my dodge-after-getting-feinted versus their feint -> whiffed stab in stamina cost).



  • Yes, funny. but the problem is that for a Knight to beat a Man at arms, they have to completely out play the Man at arms, while they just need to rely on a button push.

    The Knight has to read the MAA, has to think two steps ahead of the MAA while the MAA in the end can just react by dodging and still win the situation, dodge should be a situational move. Its stupid how MAA can dodge after parrying and that stuff.



  • The reality of the game looks like this.
    Knight runs forward, attacks , MAA parry, Knight feints loses 15,MAA dodges loses 20 stam,Knight attacks again a)MAA hit trades him b)MAA parries again loses 15 stam
    As long as you run forward you will never miss a dodging MAA hence MAA loses 35 stam vs the Knights 15 stam and Knights
    allways got the first hit in every fight



  • Because MAAs can only dodge backwards. . . No MAA with half a brain would dodge backwards when someone is running towards them, you create more of a distance dodging to the sides at that moment, even forward, towards the enemy might make it harder for the enemy to actually hit you with an attack.



  • @Xylvion:

    Because MAAs can only dodge backwards. . . No MAA with half a brain would dodge backwards when someone is running towards them, you create more of a distance dodging to the sides at that moment, even forward, towards the enemy might make it harder for the enemy to actually hit you with an attack.

    you mean you actually can choose what dodge to use?



  • Being able to turn/drag the dodges is also very stupid.



  • @Xylvion:

    Because MAAs can only dodge backwards. . . No MAA with half a brain would dodge backwards when someone is running towards them

    Oh realy? So suddenly you cant backdodge once someone pushes sprint? Isnt that kind of an easy way to negate dodge?

    you create more of a distance dodging to the sides at that moment

    No you dont! Side dodges are shorter and simple Geometry shows that only moving straight away increases the distants by the maximum amount.

    even forward, towards the enemy might make it harder for the enemy to actually hit you with an attack

    Yeah right dodge into his tracers or get stuck in his collison bubble thats super smart, not like a Knight cant turn 180 degrees in both windup and release.



  • @TheFunnySide:

    Oh realy? So suddenly you cant backdodge once someone pushes sprint? Isnt that kind of an easy way to negate dodge?

    No you dont! Side dodges are shorter and simple Geometry shows that only moving straight away increases the distants by the maximum amount.

    Yeah right dodge into his tracers or get stuck in his collison bubble thats super smart, not like a Knight cant turn 180 degrees in both windup and release.

    1: No it’s not an easy way as I have to be at my top speed to catch up, which I dont get to in 0.3 seconds.
    2: Do you even play MAA yourself?
    3: Forward dodge is probably the dodge I use the most, works fine for me. And ofc he can turn 180 degreece, but perhaps he wasn’t attacking and all of a sudden you get in close and combo a stab off of the dodge or something else turning the tables giving you initiative again.



  • @Xylvion:

    1: No it’s not an easy way as I have to be at my top speed to catch up, which I dont get to in 0.3 seconds.
    2: Do you even play MAA yourself?
    3: Forward dodge is probably the dodge I use the most, works fine for me. And ofc he can turn 180 degreece, but perhaps he wasn’t attacking and all of a sudden you get in close and combo a stab off of the dodge or something else turning the tables giving you initiative again.

    1. I assume you had max speed then you did the feint, because that is kinda mandatory
      2)Yes i main quarterstaff MAA (which needs buffs btw)
      3)May i remind you that the MAA fired his block and still has to wait some time until he can block again or attack.
      Even in another situtation you dont wanne dodge into someone because you can only start an attack after half the dodge which means your opponent can react to you and hit you first or trade with a slow high dmg weapon!!!
      4)MAA allways has to anounce his dodge by moving the body in the direction he wishes to dodge.
      IF you fail to anounce a dodge correctly you will leave a ghostimage that can be hit with no chance of block
      By carefully observing the movement of MAA you can allways know the direction of dodge or then you can hit afterimages


  • @TheFunnySide:

    Oh realy? So suddenly you cant backdodge once someone pushes sprint? Isnt that kind of an easy way to negate dodge?

    No you dont! Side dodges are shorter and simple Geometry shows that only moving straight away increases the distants by the maximum amount.

    Yeah right dodge into his tracers or get stuck in his collison bubble thats super smart, not like a Knight cant turn 180 degrees in both windup and release.

    Sure you can back dodge but it’s bad because you can easily get hit. Side dodges that curve or forward dodges that intimidate are your bread and butter dodges. Back dodges are for getting out of tricky situations or causing intentional team damage.

    The dodges are different lengths? That sounds fishy to me I’ll have to test it.

    All weapons are limited to about 180 degrees of drag on the horizontal access but this limit is imposed over the course of the whole 3 phases of attack namely: windup, release, recovery so I dunno what you’re talking about.

    4)MAA allways has to anounce his dodge by moving the body in the direction he wishes to dodge.
    IF you fail to anounce a dodge correctly you will leave a ghostimage that can be hit with no chance of block
    By carefully observing the movement of MAA you can allways know the direction of dodge or then you can hit afterimages

    This is just not true and I don’t know where you got this from. You can run in any direction and then dodge in any direction.



  • If you use 1 button dodge and are slow with keyboard skills you have to move in the direction slighty. If you can ADAD fire an AK you can v-dodge in any direction without moving that direction first…


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