Was the handlehit "fix" what everyone wanted?



  • Hey forum just wanted some opinions on this handlehit fix, I understand it isn’t a very recent update but it’s been bothering me for a bit now. by no means am I saying handlehits were fine, but the more I play with grandmace, poleaxe, dubaxe, maul, warhammer, and holy water (I main knight as many NA comp players know) I cant help but feel that all of these weapons belong in the garbage compared to swords. It is so annoying how I am in facehug range and my grand mace or holy water goes right through my enemy simply because they removed the damage tracers from the handle. Is this really the solution everyone wanted? I know handlehits were quick but I feel as if its been completely overnerfed, yet the swords get to keep their extremely quick lookdown ripostes? Discuss.



  • @Noobstomper:

    Hey forum just wanted some opinions on this handlehit fix, I understand it isn’t a very recent update but it’s been bothering me for a bit now. by no means am I saying handlehits were fine, but the more I play with grandmace, poleaxe, dubaxe, maul, warhammer, and holy water (I main knight as many NA comp players know) I cant help but feel that all of these weapons belong in the garbage compared to swords. It is so annoying how I am in facehug range and my grand mace or holy water goes right through my enemy simply because they removed the damage tracers from the handle. Is this really the solution everyone wanted? I know handlehits were quick but I feel as if its been completely overnerfed, yet the swords get to keep their extremely quick lookdown ripostes? Discuss.

    Wut. Of all those weapons only grand mace and warhammer are garbage. The rest are totally functional without handle hits. Nuff said. Also dub axe and maul are spin to win gimmick weapons. If you’re not spinning you’re not doing it right.

    Although I do agree swords seem much more favorable with handle hit nerf. Almost as if they got an indirect buff, but many non sword weapons are still viable and deadly. You also have to realize distance is their main playstyle. So they shouldn’t be face hugging swords in all honesty. Except for the shorter weapons you mentions. Those just go useless. holy water is still OP, don’t even bring it up



  • @Huggles:

    Wut. Of all those weapons only grand mace and warhammer are garbage. The rest are totally functional without handle hits. Nuff said. Also dub axe and maul are spin to win gimmick weapons. If you’re not spinning you’re not doing it right.

    Although I do agree swords seem much more favorable with handle hit nerf. Almost as if they got an indirect buff, but many non sword weapons are still viable and deadly. You also have to realize distance is their main playstyle. So they shouldn’t be face hugging swords in all honesty. Except for the shorter weapons you mentions. Those just go useless. holy water is still OP, don’t even bring it up

    The above is true.



  • I don’t think you guys above understand. With the handle hit nerf, not only is my halberd overheads not hitting someone until it’s nearly hitting the ground, but also there are times my LMB will swing right through people. This is because of the tracer change where handle tracers don’t do damage. Since the lookdown nerf wasn’t applied to swords, pole arms and swords are no longer on equal ground when in face hugging range. If everyone got the lookdown change then this would be a non issue since it would be happening to everyone. They really need to push out a better fix.



  • @AmishInsurgent:

    I don’t think you guys above understand. With the handle hit nerf, not only is my halberd overheads not hitting someone until it’s nearly hitting the ground, but also there are times my LMB will swing right through people. This is because of the tracer change where handle tracers don’t do damage. Since the lookdown nerf wasn’t applied to swords, pole arms and swords are no longer on equal ground when in face hugging range. If everyone got the lookdown change then this would be a non issue since it would be happening to everyone. They really need to push out a better fix.

    I totally agree, and while the handle hits were complete bullshit they did help out with consistency. Maybe just limited what would be considered the handle? Did they reven release the exact changes as to how the yfixed handle hits? Maybe this can and should be revisted. However you know the mechanic in itself and the way it was used iwas bullshit when the gmace becomes onsolete the day it’s fixed :P So this does need to be revisted and given equal ground. While I disagree with the notion that polearms need almost instant attacks, considering that they should be played with range in mind, I do believe that removing handles has caused inconsistency with tracers.

    Edit: Alothough the polearms do need a replacement for a relativly fast attack to keep face hugging being ultimate success. Reversal satisfies this need, but maybe a different animations for one of the attacks? Or make alt overheads the faster version not the slower version for the pole arms. idk, whacky extreme change but it might just work.



  • @AmishInsurgent:

    I don’t think you guys above understand. With the handle hit nerf, not only is my halberd overheads not hitting someone until it’s nearly hitting the ground, but also there are times my LMB will swing right through people. This is because of the tracer change where handle tracers don’t do damage. Since the lookdown nerf wasn’t applied to swords, pole arms and swords are no longer on equal ground when in face hugging range. If everyone got the lookdown change then this would be a non issue since it would be happening to everyone. They really need to push out a better fix.

    Are you forgetting why swords didn’t get the handle-hit change? They did get changed in the original beta but it was found that they consistently went straight through people in facehug range, almost every single time. This rarely happens to polearms, I’ve actually never had it happen to me or seen a polearm go through someone so I’m pretty sure you’re exaggerating. I’ve never even seen it happen in a pub.

    Halberd was stupidly OP before because it dominated in facehug range. Same with the other polearms. It was an absolute gamble if you were on the defending side because the overheads literally hit you in the first frame of release because the handle was inside your model. Swords don’t ever hit you in the first frame of release (unless you’re deliberately leaning into it and sprinting in their face for some stupid reason) because they don’t start inside you. With the exception of stabs but that applies to pretty much every weapon in the game.



  • @Noxin:

    Are you forgetting why swords didn’t get the handle-hit change? They did get changed in the original beta but it was found that they consistently went straight through people in facehug range, almost every single time. This rarely happens to polearms, I’ve actually never had it happen to me or seen a polearm go through someone so I’m pretty sure you’re exaggerating. I’ve never even seen it happen in a pub.

    Halberd was stupidly OP before because it dominated in facehug range. Same with the other polearms. It was an absolute gamble if you were on the defending side because the overheads literally hit you in the first frame of release because the handle was inside your model. Swords don’t ever hit you in the first frame of release (unless you’re deliberately leaning into it and sprinting in their face for some stupid reason) because they don’t start inside you. With the exception of stabs but that applies to pretty much every weapon in the game.

    Not exaggerating with the phasing. I’ve seen it happen multiple times just today. That being said I agree with you balance wise we just need to fix the tracer inconsistency.

    I use polearms a lot and they are fairly inconsistent. Although the stabs aren’t, and that was supposed to be the main point of the halberd anyway, but the overheads aren’t that useful for dragging as much as it misses 10% of the time for no good reason.



  • @AmishInsurgent:

    I don’t think you guys above understand. With the handle hit nerf, not only is my halberd overheads not hitting someone until it’s nearly hitting the ground, but also there are times my LMB will swing right through people. This is because of the tracer change where handle tracers don’t do damage. Since the lookdown nerf wasn’t applied to swords, pole arms and swords are no longer on equal ground when in face hugging range. If everyone got the lookdown change then this would be a non issue since it would be happening to everyone. They really need to push out a better fix.

    I’m pretty sure the handle hit tracers was applied to all weapons. It’s just because swords have a much smaller handle before it reaches the blade of the weapon that it draws a much smaller handle hit tracer. I can’t remember the exact colour, but I think it’s CYAN (light blue/green) coloured tracers that show the handle part which does no damage. And pole arms still handle hit but only once the RED tracers touch the player. Instead of hitting with the very bottom end of the polearm, you are now hitting higher up the polearm around where the up most hand is placed.



  • @Huggles:

    Not exaggerating with the phasing. I’ve seen it happen multiple times just today. That being said I agree with you balance wise we just need to fix the tracer inconsistency.

    I call bullshit. Do you mean the very bottom of the handle w/ pommel phasing? I’ve never seen a polearm completely phase through someone without dealing any damage.



  • @Noxin:

    I call bullshit. Do you mean the very bottom of the handle w/ pommel phasing? I’ve never seen a polearm completely phase through someone without dealing any damage.

    Add me on steam, I can do it on purpose now lol.

    It will show the tracers randomly change directions and not flow through the way you actually drag it in



  • Personally, I would much rather see this idea implemented:

    When a player gets close to another player, the damage from the swing of a weapon is reduced and the animation is stopped as if the attacking player hit a wall.
    This would bring in clinching/hugging.
    Any small weapons such as knives would still deal normal damage.
    And players can shove their opponent away at close range for stamina drain.

    A way of doing this on the programming level would be that the weapon has 3 stages of damage. NONE-SMALL-FULL
    During each animation would be 3 triggers. For example a Zwei-hander would have NONE at 0.0 in the animation SMALL at 1/3 and FULL half way (Bare in mind, I haven’t checked the actual animation times, this is just hypothetical).

    So the beginning of the attack won’t do any damage (this should fix the stupid spinny overhead attacks that clip players for full damage at the start of the swing, along with stabs with a big weapon when you’re practically kissing your opponent).
    As the weapon starts to swing a bit, then it does a small amount of damage as it hasn’t got full momentum, but after that, it will do full damage.
    So every time a player hugs you to make it hard to see wtf they are doing, their attacks will pretty much be useless unless they are using a knife.

    This will present a problem of EVERYONE hugging then, which is why I would then propose that players could then hit the “kick” key to shove the opponent out of the way for an impact to that opponents stamina, and very minimal impact to stamina of the player who shoved. This means that hugging is still a tactic that can be used if you are facing an opponent who is near exhaustion and you want to force them to tire out by hugging them, because they can’t shove you, but you can shove them, which will stagger them, and leave them exposed to a follow up attack.

    I know the idea isn’t appealing to many players, because many players rely on exploits to win in combat, just like in Mount and Blade, but this is just my opinion on what could be done instead of just taking away tracers from the handle of weapons.

    This means that all weapons, including flails will have a fighting chance, but the player will just need to switch up their tactics.



  • @Otreum:

    Personally, I would much rather see this idea implemented:

    When a player gets close to another player, the damage from the swing of a weapon is reduced and the animation is stopped as if the attacking player hit a wall.
    This would bring in clinching/hugging.
    Any small weapons such as knives would still deal normal damage.
    And players can shove their opponent away at close range for stamina drain.

    A way of doing this on the programming level would be that the weapon has 3 stages of damage. NONE-SMALL-FULL
    During each animation would be 3 triggers. For example a Zwei-hander would have NONE at 0.0 in the animation SMALL at 1/3 and FULL half way (Bare in mind, I haven’t checked the actual animation times, this is just hypothetical).

    So the beginning of the attack won’t do any damage (this should fix the stupid spinny overhead attacks that clip players for full damage at the start of the swing, along with stabs with a big weapon when you’re practically kissing your opponent).
    As the weapon starts to swing a bit, then it does a small amount of damage as it hasn’t got full momentum, but after that, it will do full damage.
    So every time a player hugs you to make it hard to see wtf they are doing, their attacks will pretty much be useless unless they are using a knife.

    This will present a problem of EVERYONE hugging then, which is why I would then propose that players could then hit the “kick” key to shove the opponent out of the way for an impact to that opponents stamina, and very minimal impact to stamina of the player who shoved. This means that hugging is still a tactic that can be used if you are facing an opponent who is near exhaustion and you want to force them to tire out by hugging them, because they can’t shove you, but you can shove them, which will stagger them, and leave them exposed to a follow up attack.

    I know the idea isn’t appealing to many players, because many players rely on exploits to win in combat, just like in Mount and Blade, but this is just my opinion on what could be done instead of just taking away tracers from the handle of weapons.

    This means that all weapons, including flails will have a fighting chance, but the player will just need to switch up their tactics.

    I like this idea because I can make puns with my name, I hate it because Id rather not rework the entire combat system right now, though itbdoes seem like a decent fix. Just makeb sure it does touch dragging, or even better dragged attacks still do normal damage in close due to the attack phase it is in.



  • @Huggles:

    Add me on steam, I can do it on purpose now lol.

    It will show the tracers randomly change directions and not flow through the way you actually drag it in

    why not make a video with aoc_drawtracer 1?
    perhaps TB could look into it.



  • @Alphonse:

    why not make a video with aoc_drawtracer 1?

    I need a better monitor for that, and lazy reasons. Ill do it on the side for those who ask on the spot tho



  • Warhammer never had a problem with handle hits, certainly never needed an extra nerf lol.



  • @DokB:

    I’m pretty sure the handle hit tracers was applied to all weapons. It’s just because swords have a much smaller handle before it reaches the blade of the weapon that it draws a much smaller handle hit tracer.

    They added it to all weapons and due to swords swinging through people without causing damage they removed the change only from the swords.

    @Noxin:

    Are you forgetting why swords didn’t get the handle-hit change? They did get changed in the original beta but it was found that they consistently went straight through people in facehug range, almost every single time.

    I’m completely aware. But removing it from one set of weapons and not the other isn’t a fix, it’s a nerf.

    This rarely happens to polearms, I’ve actually never had it happen to me or seen a polearm go through someone so I’m pretty sure you’re exaggerating. I’ve never even seen it happen in a pub.

    I am not exaggerating. I have ~100 hours registered into chivalry for the past 2 weeks and I almost exclusively use halberd. Every time it happens it’s with an alt LMB at face hug range.

    Halberd was stupidly OP before because it dominated in facehug range. Same with the other polearms. It was an absolute gamble if you were on the defending side because the overheads literally hit you in the first frame of release because the handle was inside your model. Swords don’t ever hit you in the first frame of release (unless you’re deliberately leaning into it and sprinting in their face for some stupid reason) because they don’t start inside you. With the exception of stabs but that applies to pretty much every weapon in the game.

    You need to realize that the change should’ve been the weapon hilt not doing damage, not ~half the weapon. The reason pole arm lookdowns were bullshit was because they stick out a tad more on the bottom end, letting the hilt touch first if close enough. The problem is with the current change you can swing past halfway through someone with an overhead before they register damage. That is not right. It should be just like the swords where as soon as the pole arm’s center makes contact damage is applied. If you want I can make a video demonstrating the difference between how far a greatsword goes into a person before it registers and how far the halberd does.



  • How about we add a spikes thing at the bottom of pole arms to give a reason for handle hits xD slightly above the bottom part so it doesn’t spawn inside of you.



  • @Huggles:

    I like this idea because I can make puns with my name, I hate it because Id rather not rework the entire combat system right now, though itbdoes seem like a decent fix. Just makeb sure it does touch dragging, or even better dragged attacks still do normal damage in close due to the attack phase it is in.

    Yeah, it’s only a general idea, not really fleshed out to cator for things like dragging, but you get the gist of it :)

    I would actually LOVE to see them rework the entire combat system. Because they keep making constant balance changes to weapons, veteran players get annoyed, new players get happy, then they unbalance it, then balance it, then unbalance, it’s an endless cycle because they are trying to please everyone with the same things that they keep doing.
    The fault of combat is not with weapon timings, damage etc, it’s with the actual combat mechanics itself. TBS are making enough money now to not care too much about changing things, but hopefully they do, or at least change things for when/if they make their next first person melee combat game.



  • @Otreum:

    Yeah, it’s only a general idea, not really fleshed out to cator for things like dragging, but you get the gist of it :)

    I would actually LOVE to see them rework the entire combat system. Because they keep making constant balance changes to weapons, veteran players get annoyed, new players get happy, then they unbalance it, then balance it, then unbalance, it’s an endless cycle because they are trying to please everyone with the same things that they keep doing.
    The fault of combat is not with weapon timings, damage etc, it’s with the actual combat mechanics itself. TBS are making enough money now to not care too much about changing things, but hopefully they do, or at least change things for when/if they make their next first person melee combat game.

    Just keep on giving your ideas mate! It would be a shame if torn banner actually did think that way though. I’ve always been taught the harder it gets, the harder you go. The less you get, the more you do. You never respond to bad positions with inadequate work, you climb out of hell one step at a time eith hard work and dedication. “I’m not being paid enough to work this hard” is never a valid reason.



  • Never see halberd go through things, polehammer does it all the time though lol. Pretty weird. Gmace also flies through a lot. No problem with poleaxe or maul though.


Log in to reply