Is messer OP? If so, what makes it OP?



  • Players can easily outrun messer feint unless you sprint at them and feint into slash attack. Even then it’s possible for them to get lucky and avoid it. Pretty big downside imo.



  • @gndo:

    Players can easily outrun messer feint unless you sprint at them and feint into slash attack. Even then it’s possible for them to get lucky and avoid it. Pretty big downside imo.

    Well yeah that’s the range disadvantage I was talking about, you can run away from it even as a knight. If you want to use a sword and be effective against knights I think Messer is still your best bet because of the 1-hit on lighter classes and 2-hit on knights.

    LS needs to be buffed, Messer doesn’t need to be nerfed if we keep the pubbers’ opinions out of the conversation.



  • The messer isn’t really OP. It’s just one of the very few viable options knights have so most of the best knights use it, which in turn makes it popular and seem OP to people because they were outskilled by the worst class in the game. The longsword and SoW are vastly inferior to it, as well as many other knight weapons. Knights have received nothing but nerfs.

    Other weapons need to be brought up to its level.



  • the messer has the same problems that the greatsword its to good its easy to drag and has great dmg though youll only see the skilled players who pretty much just OH drag spam with it be a threat though



  • @Tombstone:

    the messer has the same problems that the greatsword its to good its easy to drag and has great dmg though youll only see the skilled players who pretty much just OH drag spam with it be a threat though

    Greatsword has none of the disadvantages that messer has though.



  • “Other weapons need to be brought up to its level.” Wouldn’t it be easier to bring it down to the level of the rest of the weapons?



  • @Agent:

    “Other weapons need to be brought up to its level.” Wouldn’t it be easier to bring it down to the level of the rest of the weapons?

    What they need to do, is revert Long Sword and SoW damage back to their launch values. You vanguards don’t know what pain is!



  • @gndo:

    Greatsword has none of the disadvantages that messer has though.

    the only disadvantages that I see are that the messer is shorter and doesn’t have a good stab



  • @Tombstone:

    the only disadvantages that I see are that the messer is shorter and doesn’t have a good stab

    Which are fair disadvantages if you have spent time using it against good players.



  • It’s a good weapon but I don’t think it needs to be nerf’d. The only problem I can see with it is the riposte OH is a little to fast for how much damage it does. I think people are basing there issues with messer off of there experience dueling against it and the fact that LS isn’t very good. SOW is better in a lot of team play situations which is really what we should be balancing around.



  • @Agent:

    “Other weapons need to be brought up to its level.” Wouldn’t it be easier to bring it down to the level of the rest of the weapons?

    So just nerf knight even more? Why? Do you know how many unviable weapons knights have? The messer isn’t OP. Longsword needs to be reverted, SoW needs slight buffs as well as just about every other knight weapon. Then you have knight secondaries that no one uses any more since MaA buffs, vanguard knock back, stamina drain, and no more forward chase.



  • I can’t be the only one here that feels the messer overheads are wonky. The animations for the overhead makes lookdowns seem close to instant and the riposte overheads are insane. Combine that with how the messer also releases over the shoulder allowing for easy cross bodied waterfall hits. Overheads pretty much the only attack I see people using with the messer in duels/scrims.



  • Why I think it’s slightly OP

    • On proper hands, the CFtP is usually too responsive/fast. I don’t see why it should be on par with SoW and LS in that regard as it’s supposedly a heavy ass piece of metal.
    • Overhead (OH) does chop damage
    • 2-3 hit combos with a lot of dragging can desync quite easily
    • vertical turn rate in ripostes can be a bitch
    • it’s short enough that it doesn’t hit the floor when doing lookdown OHs, so it’s quite easy to do OH combos even on inclines.
    • thanks to the knockback after that first hit, said combos at facehug range require you to gamble on your parry as they’re usually perceived as “instahits”.

    Mind you, I don’t mean instahits in the sense of superfast/unparriable hits. It’s just that the animations are wonky or have too few frames when accelerated. For a weapon with such HUGE damage, specially for the OH, I’d like the animations to be smooth as fuck so I don’t die in 2 hits one of which I probably won’t be seeing clearly.
    Also, the issue with the combo “instahits” is not exclusive to the Messer, you can do that with almost any 2H on any class (minus the Zwei, probably).

    tl;dr: it’s exploitable



  • @SOC:

    So just nerf knight even more? Why? Do you know how many unviable weapons knights have? The messer isn’t OP. Longsword needs to be reverted, SoW needs slight buffs as well as just about every other knight weapon. Then you have knight secondaries that no one uses any more since MaA buffs, vanguard knock back, stamina drain, and no more forward chase.

    Obviously a slight increase on the overhead windup and 5 dmg reduction on the slash isnt gonne make this weapon unviable
    Knights will get passive buffed after greatsword gets nerffed. Even now Knight is the best class (after archer), so i dont see a reason especially then knights have the most viable weapons.



  • Should nerf all knight weapons damage by 50% and decrease the stamina used on parry for them to make it a tank class.



  • Messer windups are far too close to LS for the damage it does. As well, the range isn’t really that short when you factor in the release. As well, the OH are really inconsistent, I get a lot of phased through hits from messer OH.



  • Desynch’s and high LMB damage, that’s what’s wrong with the Messer



  • The thing that i believe makes messer OP is how easy it is to use well. Because the look-down overheads are so fast, it makes the alt attacks with drags to slow them down really OP. You dont really see this problem with maul and zwei because while they can also be dragged out to obscene lengths, their look down overheads arent fast enough that you would have to worry about parrying instantly anyway.



  • @MichaelTurtles:

    The thing that i believe makes messer OP is how easy it is to use well. Because the look-down overheads are so fast, it makes the alt attacks with drags to slow them down really OP. You dont really see this problem with maul and zwei because while they can also be dragged out to obscene lengths, their look down overheads arent fast enough that you would have to worry about parrying instantly anyway.

    This is exactly the reason that Brandistock is so strong. It isn’t because it has a fast slash, it’s because it has a super fast attack, a medium speed attack, and the slowest melee attack in the game. In a teamfight if you know there’s a spear or a fork around you know that it’s generally gonna be medium speed/fast speed attacks, but if you turn and see a brandi winding up you need to judge if it’s gonna be very slow, medium, or fast (which can be hard in the heat of battle). Plus the thrust can pressure for .8 seconds from very far away and then immediately switch onto another target and hit them instead. The animations don’t help here either, since both the stab and the thrust have very little movement you can never really be sure how long it’s gonna be until it gets out of windup (or out of the feint window) and hits you.

    Sorry about going slightly off topic and babbling, this isn’t a brandi thread but this post made me think of it. Carry on.



  • Messer basically drags itself, its ez mode just like brandi and GS scrubbles


Log in to reply