Archer discussion - Damage reduction except to other archers



  • Much less damage on arms/legs, less damage on torso, how about on heads? How much of a reward should headshots give? What are the exact values you archer mains believe it should be? Remember, the damage reduction needs to be thought of in changing how many hits to kill your target needs to take, rather than random values to see what “feels” right.

    Obviously keep archer vs archer the same so it’s quick and efficient. What about things like stamina drain on bow draw and actual less/inconsistent accuracy when moving/jumping/anything but crouching/not moving? The point is to make archer vs archer fast while not making them so oppressive and game changing.

    Obviously no back stab bonus. Not everyone agrees on the flinch but I think it should remain as it is now. It’s way better punishing archers who are in melee range without their weapon out, they shouldn’t get a risk/reward system for that decision as they should be playing at their risk free range instead. They still get a risk/reward currently however considering they can oneshot any class, so your reward is you oneshot them before they hit you which makes flinch irrelevant.

    And then there’s javelins. I don’t think javelins should flinch as good javs still ruin melee combat. I also think they’re too accurate while moving/jumping. This is a pub decision as no one runs javs in team battles, but that may change as archers do. Should javs get back stab bonus? I don’t think so as heavy jav shouldn’t one shot vanguards in melee no matter what.



  • I still think there need to be new damage types for the projectiles, that way it’d be easier to balance it out and different ones could be used for different situations. And javs are and will probably continue to be ridicolous as they got they’re the fastest projectile to release and also got melee capabilities + a shield.



  • I agree that a damage nerf should leave archer vs archer untouched and introduce more precise “chest” hits do to full torso damage, -50% across the board would be paradise for me but seems extremely unlikely. A lesser nerf for headshots sounds good but I’ll leave that discussion to the guys who actually get headshots

    Keeping accuracy consistent would be nice, but jumps should interrupt all ranged windups. That shit looks mad stupid and is too annoying with javelin sprinters and even pebblers

    Javelin stab damage seems harsh, could be toned down a little though I think keeping the htk is fine since they’re pretty predictable
    Javelin throws need drastic increase in stamina cost as the tradeoff for being able to block and melee at will. Missing throws on someone closing the distance should put the archer at a bigger stamina disadvantage for melee
    Not sure about release flinch on javelins, I guess it could stay as a feature but it also encourages the 90% shotgun hits that noone liked even on real archers

    light crossbow should not be able to fire, instead becoming a prestige primary for pure melee archers



  • Archers will just not bother to shoot at other archers and just pick more damaging weapons anyway to get kills.

    Chivalry heavy crossbow warfare.



  • @lemonater47:

    Archers will just not bother to shoot at other archers and just pick more damaging weapons anyway to get kills.

    Chivalry heavy crossbow warfare.

    Really? Because I’m pretty sure the casual archers will want to shoot whatever they can kill in one shot, which would only be other archers. I know I would.

    I should point out that torso damage also needs to be lower, not just arms/legs/ect.



  • no altered damage for headshots (not even heavy xbow)
    50% damage reduction for shots to body and legs
    create a special low flinch time for javelin melee archers aren’t supposed to be good at melee
    remove flinch from ALL projectiles, I think it’s fair that if you can’t flinch someone who is throwing shit at you they wouldn’t be able to flinch you either
    and add flinch during weapon change
    I’m not going to comment on the way NA plays but I think javs are a much bigger problem than bows/xbows if we look at skilled players
    I’m not sure about archer v archer but I think you should atleast be able to flinch them if they have a ranged weapon out



  • @SOC:

    Really? Because I’m pretty sure the casual archers will want to shoot whatever they can kill in one shot, which would only be other archers. I know I would.

    I should point out that torso damage also needs to be lower, not just arms/legs/ect.

    Arms count as torso. In this game there’s only legs, torso and head.

    25% damage for legs. No change for torso, no change for head. The return of tap block for shields, make the crosshair disappear in smoke and make names not appear through smoke.

    If you lower the damage archers won’t be able to one shot each other. To do so they will use heavier weapons. Or they will just shoot into melee.



  • why dont you guys try playing archer and tell me how well you do



  • @lemonater47:

    If you lower the damage archers won’t be able to one shot each other. To do so they will use heavier weapons. Or they will just shoot into melee.

    not sure I understand this line of thought

    it sounds simple enough to nerf projectiles but make archers more vulnerable to them, so you should actually be more inclined to take out enemy archers than before since they’re more fragile and a greater threat at the same time
    the bigger weapons would obviously get the same damage nerf, so I don’t see why they’d be more popular relatively unless the new damage numbers significantly unbalance HTK across weapons

    even if you’re right and the only thing a nerf achieves is archers focusing their shots even more on melees, they’d be worse at it and that is desirable



  • That way people are just playing two different games.

    Its better to buff other things and use your brains than to nerf them. No one likes shields? Buff them. No one uses smoke? Buff them.



  • @lemonater47:

    That way people are just playing two different games.

    Its better to buff other things and use your brains than to nerf them. No one likes shields? Buff them. No one uses smoke? Buff them.

    smoke could use a bigger radius

    shields are sucky without riposte



  • @zombojoe:

    smoke could use a bigger radius

    shields are sucky without riposte

    u really want to fight other ppl in smoke



  • @rumpelstiltskin:

    u really want to fight other ppl in smoke

    i see people on duels server do that shit all the time

    so ~tactical~



  • @lemonater47:

    Arms count as torso. In this game there’s only legs, torso and head.

    25% damage for legs. No change for torso, no change for head. The return of tap block for shields, make the crosshair disappear in smoke and make names not appear through smoke.

    If you lower the damage archers won’t be able to one shot each other. To do so they will use heavier weapons. Or they will just shoot into melee.

    Torso needs to do less damage, it’s the easiest part to hit most of the time, even with shields. Of course archers can still oneshot each other if you lower the damage, that’s the point of this thread.

    @lemonater47:

    Its better to buff other things and use your brains than to nerf them. No one likes shields? Buff them. No one uses smoke? Buff them.

    Buffing shields and smoke would require fundamental changes that completely change how they play and behave, it isn’t as simple as just changing a number like you can do for nerfing archers. Archers are the problem, not shields or smoke. I mean using your brain means knowing archers need to deal less damage to melee targets. :/



  • Shields were good once. Change some things so they were back to how they were.

    The only shield they can hit you in the torso with is the buckler.

    Shields need tap block back. So they are more responsive again. Everyone stopped using shields after they removed that.



  • While I feel that archer damage on some weapons are a bit too high, warbow and crossbows, I think that a % damage reduc is the wrong way to go about this……without giving something in return… Did you consider the effect this would have on say the short bow? Or even the Long bow? Now that flinch is gone the archer has no supportive play anymore, just pure damage so they go for the nuke weapons.

    I think the right way to go about this is to add your suggested dmg reduction(lower values) and to introduce a new innate for the archer that would reward those that can actually shoot, AND provide options for the less accurate.

    SO, the new innate, lets call it No Mercy, would give the archer a bonus % or flat # of damage against a target that has been hit by a previous arrow/pebble/jav/projectile of the same archer, with a timer of course. Repeated hits would just refresh the timer on that target. Hitting a different target would remove the buff against the previous one.

    It would give archers a reason to use the other bows, reward archers that can consistently hit the mark, and hurt one shot nuke archers. Using Nuke bows would limit your chances of utilizing the innate due to long reload times, most likely the buff would time out after a miss on the war bow and crossbows. This would also make slings just a bit more viable too.

    So what do you guys think? Don’t be too harsh, first post on the forums.

    -HandBanana ~~~~Dick short bow archer that flinched high levels from 5 feet away while they were mid combat.



  • Nerf torso damage globally by 25%, limb damabe by 50%, keep headshot damage intact otherwise but make it so that every archer weapon except pebbles can oneshot other archers to the head. Now introduce stamina drain upon bow draw. “B-but Monsteri-senpai, shortbow is useless!”

    Well no, Warbow and the Crossbows would drain around 50% of your stamina in one shot, while shortbow would only drain around 10%. With e.g. warbow you wouldn’t have much chances in mid range if you are actively shooting and enemies decide to come at you – you’d need cover and to position yourself more carefully at the expense of easy shots. With Shortbow and similar bows it’d be different, you could have plenty of easy shots and still have enough stamina for melee if someone breaks out and tries to get you. You could also use it as an archer counter: let the enemy draw his mighty warbow and pop his head out while he struggles to move.

    Warbow and CBs would still likely be the go-to weapon of competitive archers, but at least the low dmg weapons would have a viable niche and who knows, archers who prefer a more agressive playstyle and their easy shots could start maining the glorious sling.

    Archer weapons would then create a steady climb from more agressive to more passive:

    Javelins
    Sling
    Shortbow
    Longbow <-- kind of middle ground between SB and WB in terms of speed and positioning
    Warbow
    LCB
    CB
    HCB

    Crossbow speeds or range need to be nerfed as well doe, the thing is basically a point-and-click which imo is a no bueno. Or perhaps you could nerf their ammo count.



  • @Monsteri…. uhhh… wat, Why the double nerf when archer just got the shaft, suggesting both damage reduction and stamina cost for bow is just way too much, wheres the balance in this? Is this with archer getting flinch back?

    Is this a joke? Maybe I fell for it :/.



  • 30-50% reduction in damage for all bows. Remove all 1 shot abilities from all bows, gimme a friggin break. Add in stamina cost and give them back flinch ability. Maybe then you won’t have to archer cap the servers noobs.



  • Longbow, shortbow, sling ect. can get buffs later on down the road after these changes, but even right now being hit by a longbow deals way too much damage and is anti-fun.


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