Archer discussion - Damage reduction except to other archers



  • @SOC:

    Really? Because I’m pretty sure the casual archers will want to shoot whatever they can kill in one shot, which would only be other archers. I know I would.

    I should point out that torso damage also needs to be lower, not just arms/legs/ect.

    Arms count as torso. In this game there’s only legs, torso and head.

    25% damage for legs. No change for torso, no change for head. The return of tap block for shields, make the crosshair disappear in smoke and make names not appear through smoke.

    If you lower the damage archers won’t be able to one shot each other. To do so they will use heavier weapons. Or they will just shoot into melee.



  • why dont you guys try playing archer and tell me how well you do



  • @lemonater47:

    If you lower the damage archers won’t be able to one shot each other. To do so they will use heavier weapons. Or they will just shoot into melee.

    not sure I understand this line of thought

    it sounds simple enough to nerf projectiles but make archers more vulnerable to them, so you should actually be more inclined to take out enemy archers than before since they’re more fragile and a greater threat at the same time
    the bigger weapons would obviously get the same damage nerf, so I don’t see why they’d be more popular relatively unless the new damage numbers significantly unbalance HTK across weapons

    even if you’re right and the only thing a nerf achieves is archers focusing their shots even more on melees, they’d be worse at it and that is desirable



  • That way people are just playing two different games.

    Its better to buff other things and use your brains than to nerf them. No one likes shields? Buff them. No one uses smoke? Buff them.



  • @lemonater47:

    That way people are just playing two different games.

    Its better to buff other things and use your brains than to nerf them. No one likes shields? Buff them. No one uses smoke? Buff them.

    smoke could use a bigger radius

    shields are sucky without riposte



  • @zombojoe:

    smoke could use a bigger radius

    shields are sucky without riposte

    u really want to fight other ppl in smoke



  • @rumpelstiltskin:

    u really want to fight other ppl in smoke

    i see people on duels server do that shit all the time

    so ~tactical~



  • @lemonater47:

    Arms count as torso. In this game there’s only legs, torso and head.

    25% damage for legs. No change for torso, no change for head. The return of tap block for shields, make the crosshair disappear in smoke and make names not appear through smoke.

    If you lower the damage archers won’t be able to one shot each other. To do so they will use heavier weapons. Or they will just shoot into melee.

    Torso needs to do less damage, it’s the easiest part to hit most of the time, even with shields. Of course archers can still oneshot each other if you lower the damage, that’s the point of this thread.

    @lemonater47:

    Its better to buff other things and use your brains than to nerf them. No one likes shields? Buff them. No one uses smoke? Buff them.

    Buffing shields and smoke would require fundamental changes that completely change how they play and behave, it isn’t as simple as just changing a number like you can do for nerfing archers. Archers are the problem, not shields or smoke. I mean using your brain means knowing archers need to deal less damage to melee targets. :/



  • Shields were good once. Change some things so they were back to how they were.

    The only shield they can hit you in the torso with is the buckler.

    Shields need tap block back. So they are more responsive again. Everyone stopped using shields after they removed that.



  • While I feel that archer damage on some weapons are a bit too high, warbow and crossbows, I think that a % damage reduc is the wrong way to go about this……without giving something in return… Did you consider the effect this would have on say the short bow? Or even the Long bow? Now that flinch is gone the archer has no supportive play anymore, just pure damage so they go for the nuke weapons.

    I think the right way to go about this is to add your suggested dmg reduction(lower values) and to introduce a new innate for the archer that would reward those that can actually shoot, AND provide options for the less accurate.

    SO, the new innate, lets call it No Mercy, would give the archer a bonus % or flat # of damage against a target that has been hit by a previous arrow/pebble/jav/projectile of the same archer, with a timer of course. Repeated hits would just refresh the timer on that target. Hitting a different target would remove the buff against the previous one.

    It would give archers a reason to use the other bows, reward archers that can consistently hit the mark, and hurt one shot nuke archers. Using Nuke bows would limit your chances of utilizing the innate due to long reload times, most likely the buff would time out after a miss on the war bow and crossbows. This would also make slings just a bit more viable too.

    So what do you guys think? Don’t be too harsh, first post on the forums.

    -HandBanana ~~~~Dick short bow archer that flinched high levels from 5 feet away while they were mid combat.



  • Nerf torso damage globally by 25%, limb damabe by 50%, keep headshot damage intact otherwise but make it so that every archer weapon except pebbles can oneshot other archers to the head. Now introduce stamina drain upon bow draw. “B-but Monsteri-senpai, shortbow is useless!”

    Well no, Warbow and the Crossbows would drain around 50% of your stamina in one shot, while shortbow would only drain around 10%. With e.g. warbow you wouldn’t have much chances in mid range if you are actively shooting and enemies decide to come at you – you’d need cover and to position yourself more carefully at the expense of easy shots. With Shortbow and similar bows it’d be different, you could have plenty of easy shots and still have enough stamina for melee if someone breaks out and tries to get you. You could also use it as an archer counter: let the enemy draw his mighty warbow and pop his head out while he struggles to move.

    Warbow and CBs would still likely be the go-to weapon of competitive archers, but at least the low dmg weapons would have a viable niche and who knows, archers who prefer a more agressive playstyle and their easy shots could start maining the glorious sling.

    Archer weapons would then create a steady climb from more agressive to more passive:

    Javelins
    Sling
    Shortbow
    Longbow <-- kind of middle ground between SB and WB in terms of speed and positioning
    Warbow
    LCB
    CB
    HCB

    Crossbow speeds or range need to be nerfed as well doe, the thing is basically a point-and-click which imo is a no bueno. Or perhaps you could nerf their ammo count.



  • @Monsteri…. uhhh… wat, Why the double nerf when archer just got the shaft, suggesting both damage reduction and stamina cost for bow is just way too much, wheres the balance in this? Is this with archer getting flinch back?

    Is this a joke? Maybe I fell for it :/.



  • 30-50% reduction in damage for all bows. Remove all 1 shot abilities from all bows, gimme a friggin break. Add in stamina cost and give them back flinch ability. Maybe then you won’t have to archer cap the servers noobs.



  • Longbow, shortbow, sling ect. can get buffs later on down the road after these changes, but even right now being hit by a longbow deals way too much damage and is anti-fun.



  • @Hand:

    @Monsteri…. uhhh… wat, Why the double nerf when archer just got the shaft, suggesting both damage reduction and stamina cost for bow is just way too much, wheres the balance in this? Is this with archer getting flinch back?

    Is this a joke? Maybe I fell for it :/.

    Archers right now are OP as hell as they have always been since the summer patch. They will continue to be OP as long as their biggest issue, damage is so high. Good archers could still carry as headshots would do the same amount of damage as they do now.

    The stamina “nerf” is there to simply give archer more viable options than WB and CB, and to make it so they need good melee support if they want to use the heavy weapons in mid range where leading the arrows is the easiest.



  • An extra HTK for Vang and Knight for Warbow at least should do the trick.

    I believe the Crossbows/Javs may require a bit of extra attention.



  • @Monsteri:

    Archers right now are OP as hell as they have always been since the summer patch. They will continue to be OP as long as their biggest issue, damage is so high. Good archers could still carry as headshots would do the same amount of damage as they do now.

    The stamina “nerf” is there to simply give archer more viable options than WB and CB, and to make it so they need good melee support if they want to use the heavy weapons in mid range where leading the arrows is the easiest.

    just sayin archer didnt get buffed at all

    received nothing but nerfs since the game released



  • Didnt the arrow trajectory speed get increased and some reload times shortened? And I don’t recall HCB oneshotting knights at release.



  • @Monsteri:

    Didnt the arrow trajectory speed get increased and some reload times shortened? And I don’t recall HCB oneshotting knights at release.

    regular crossbow used to 1 shot knights to the head

    just crossbow projectile and reload speeds got buffed but crossbows are generally trash

    if you want to nerf noob archers reverting the projectile speeds is the way to go



  • Here’s my input after playing last night. The damage nerf may or may not be needed at this point. They’re still a strong class yes, but with a damage nerf on top that might be pushing it a little too far. I might agree with the certain weapons YES… like HCB and Warbow perhaps… but not too much.

    I learned last night that without the flinch, and without the backstab bonus, archers have to at least work a little bit harder for their kills and really make better decisions. A lot of people were complaining about how the shorbow was now “useless” and yet i came in 2nd place with one in a pub. I still can kill many foes without needing the extra damage the backstab bonus gives to me.

    The archer seems to NEED to be played now how i always kind of thought it should be. The flinch was a big culprit in not only annoying the shit out of melee classes, it PROMOTED those point blank shots where arhcers waited till you got RIGHT up to them to shoot you. Then, it still gave them enough time to switch to secondary after the flinch, and throw a final finishing stab before you could land a single attack as another class.

    I think the archer should be a class that accels at range, which they still do… but when melee gets close to them they should totally get fucked up. I think we are much closer to that than beofre. I love the nerf, it’s not really eveen that bad and many archers are complaining but it was needed. They just need to learn how to olay the archer class as i always thought it should have been in the first place, by watching the battlefield and repositioning as needed.

    As for damage nerf, probably warbow and hcb need those. Reaload speed nerf on the lcb… done. And i’m all for a torso/leg/other damage nerf and leave the headshots the same.


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