Changes to the 'turn on a dime'



  • I wonder what you will be replacing the twitch ‘turn on a dime’ combat system with. Much of the power of the lighter classes in AoC comes from this.

    How will you be balancing light vs. heavy?



  • @dragonfury:

    I wonder what you will be replacing the twitch ‘turn on a dime’ combat system with. Much of the power of the lighter classes in AoC comes from this.

    How will you be balancing light vs. heavy?

    Light classes will still move significantly faster, which is a strength in and of itself. In the ask a question thread the devs have confirmed there is a “dodge” system where double-tapping a movement key performs a quick leap in that direction; I’d assume lighter classes would have less recovery time when performing it, or something similar, to keep them at an advantage in footwork.



  • So, after the chase people will actually have momentum.

    Heavy knight chasing after an archer
    Archer dies, but heavy is hit by an arrow, heavy is damaged, but still running
    Oh shi… I can’t slow down in time, I’M HEADED STRAIGHT FOR THAT GUARDSMAN’S POLEARM
    FFFFUUUUUUUUU…
    The sound of stabbing



  • @dragonfury:

    So, after the chase people will actually have momentum.

    Heavy knight chasing after an archer
    Archer dies, but heavy is hit by an arrow, heavy is damaged, but still running
    Oh shi… I can’t slow down in time, I’M HEADED STRAIGHT FOR THAT GUARDSMAN’S POLEARM
    FFFFUUUUUUUUU…
    The sound of stabbing

    Gather around kids. This is the story of parry. The most underrated skill in the whole AOC.

    When the evil GM is stabbing at you just wait with your parry as long as you deem secure, Then proceed with overheading or stabbing his face.

    And the story ends with a GM less and a surviving heavy that can proceed to rape many archers for epic glory and fame.



  • :bonk: Excellent story Dussan



  • As an owner, wearer, and combat user of ‘heavy’ armors, turning on a dime, sprinting, stopping really arent that much affected, if anything, chainmaille is heavier. as far as restrictions? Proper armor doesnt have any, if your armor limits mobility, you need a new harness son. plain and simple.
    pushups, acrobatics, touching toes, sprinting, diving, rolling, all are perfectly cabable for the trained knight. as he is in top physical condition, and not some lard-assed, internet surfing, basement troll of a kid who thinks he can read something online then go out and ‘debunk’ it. I cant BELIEVE the amount of those i run into during faires, while im in full harness by the way, and tell me that i could never catch anyone wearin it, you can only run x feet, or move so far. they got really surprised when i did a full dead sprint at a progressing situation that was quickly escalating between two faire-goers.

    moral of the story is, dont believe what you find in videogames or DnD. Find the facts from a properly trained, equipped, and physically fit medieval combatant.



  • How heavy were armors from back then anyways? No one can probably give that good of an estimate considering how many different types there are, but what is an average range of weight?



  • @Lancebringer:

    As an owner, wearer, and combat user of ‘heavy’ armors, turning on a dime, sprinting, stopping really arent that much affected, if anything, chainmaille is heavier. as far as restrictions? Proper armor doesnt have any, if your armor limits mobility, you need a new harness son. plain and simple.
    pushups, acrobatics, touching toes, sprinting, diving, rolling, all are perfectly cabable for the trained knight. as he is in top physical condition, and not some lard-assed, internet surfing, basement troll of a kid who thinks he can read something online then go out and ‘debunk’ it. I cant BELIEVE the amount of those i run into during faires, while im in full harness by the way, and tell me that i could never catch anyone wearin it, you can only run x feet, or move so far. they got really surprised when i did a full dead sprint at a progressing situation that was quickly escalating between two faire-goers.

    moral of the story is, dont believe what you find in videogames or DnD. Find the facts from a properly trained, equipped, and physically fit medieval combatant.

    Considering each piece of plate armour was basically custom fit to the buyer, free range of movement should be considered a given and the old tale as you say is now considered false. However, I dare say you go sprinting around after wearing the complete set (undergarments and underpadding also) after fighting for 7-8 mins, I have a feeling you’ll be worse for wear by the time the sprinting comes around. I couldn’t imagine fighting on foot in full plate for any length of time, those soldiers were some mean men I tell ya.



  • @xittix:

    Considering each piece of plate armour was basically custom fit to the buyer, free range of movement should be considered a given and the old tale as you say is now considered false. However, I dare say you go sprinting around after wearing the complete set (undergarments and underpadding also) after fighting for 7-8 mins, I have a feeling you’ll be worse for wear by the time the sprinting comes around. I couldn’t imagine fighting on foot in full plate for any length of time, those soldiers were some mean men I tell ya.

    Look at it this way. If you were fighting on foot without a good harness on, you might not be fighting as long as you would otherwise (in other words you’d be killed).



  • @Muffins:

    How heavy were armors from back then anyways? No one can probably give that good of an estimate considering how many different types there are, but what is an average range of weight?

    The weight ranges vary upon the manufacturer, but an average harness total weight could be anywhere from 40-90 pounds. Chain maile is dependant on ring diameter, weave density, and ring thickness. But i have both a hauberk (long sleeve down to knee, 75 pounds) and Haubergeon (short sleeve, to thighs, 50 pounds) but they are both fairly small ring diameter, 14 gauge rings, and european 4-1 “standard” butted pattern.

    @xittix:

    @Lancebringer:

    As an owner, wearer, and combat user of ‘heavy’ armors, turning on a dime, sprinting, stopping really arent that much affected, if anything, chainmaille is heavier. as far as restrictions? Proper armor doesnt have any, if your armor limits mobility, you need a new harness son. plain and simple.
    pushups, acrobatics, touching toes, sprinting, diving, rolling, all are perfectly cabable for the trained knight. as he is in top physical condition, and not some lard-assed, internet surfing, basement troll of a kid who thinks he can read something online then go out and ‘debunk’ it. I cant BELIEVE the amount of those i run into during faires, while im in full harness by the way, and tell me that i could never catch anyone wearin it, you can only run x feet, or move so far. they got really surprised when i did a full dead sprint at a progressing situation that was quickly escalating between two faire-goers.

    moral of the story is, dont believe what you find in videogames or DnD. Find the facts from a properly trained, equipped, and physically fit medieval combatant.

    Considering each piece of plate armour was basically custom fit to the buyer, free range of movement should be considered a given and the old tale as you say is now considered false. However, I dare say you go sprinting around after wearing the complete set (undergarments and underpadding also) after fighting for 7-8 mins, I have a feeling you’ll be worse for wear by the time the sprinting comes around. I couldn’t imagine fighting on foot in full plate for any length of time, those soldiers were some mean men I tell ya.

    Old tale is false? about knights doing acrobatics in armor? The harness werent really that heavy like ive been saying. Hardened steel=not as thick thus less weight.
    And I do 10 minute non-stop combat sessions for training. I daresay you go about swinging one of MY swords for 30 seconds. Ive put football/baseball/basketball players in their rightful place with this technique, most dont even last 15 seconds.
    I used to do my Navy fitness training for the mile and a half run in full chain armor. Head to toe, a layer of maille. it reallllly makes a difference after a week.

    @HamsterPants:

    @xittix:

    Considering each piece of plate armour was basically custom fit to the buyer, free range of movement should be considered a given and the old tale as you say is now considered false. However, I dare say you go sprinting around after wearing the complete set (undergarments and underpadding also) after fighting for 7-8 mins, I have a feeling you’ll be worse for wear by the time the sprinting comes around. I couldn’t imagine fighting on foot in full plate for any length of time, those soldiers were some mean men I tell ya.

    Look at it this way. If you were fighting on foot without a good harness on, you might not be fighting as long as you would otherwise (in other words you’d be killed).

    You are correct, armor then, is to bullet proof vests/helmets today. The lives of the wearer depend HEAVILY upon the protection. Less weight, better protection, longer lives, thats why they had such stringent standards then. Unfortunately today we let idiots roll around in stainless steel, unhardened thin steels, and armor that just isnt made right.
    So when you hear about someone getting hurt while wearing armor, its because hes a dumbass. Look at it this way, you wouldnt want to get hit in a car, but if you did, you would choose the one with the best ratings, and you should always choose the best car, because it, in effect, is armor. Your life, if it comes down to it, depends on that coccoon of steel.

    Armor is still revered as the crown jewel of blacksmith work, it requires all the blacksmthing aspects to be mastered. Think about it, they made those elegant steel and iron skins by hand. This predates machine work, this predates close tolerances, precision instruments. They used strings, wood, hand-made hammers, a few anvils of various shapes, hand-tanned leather, all of these things put together.
    Using heat treating techniques predating thermometers (you wont understand this unless you actually are a blacksmith, or have studied it thoroughly)
    Before there was sand-paper of various grits.
    Before there was modern lighting, daylight, and candle/fire light by night.
    They were the true masters. And armor wasnt shiney, that only came from the serf’s polishing a separate, more elegant, suit for the parades and ceremonies.
    Dont mistake the bullshit you see at most ren-medieval faires as real. There is only one person i know who remotely practices actual medieval technique, and he runs his own shows, and I train under him.
    Im working on my smithy skills so i may make him a new cuirass, his doesnt fit him after he lost weight, that and it wasnt properly sized to him.



  • In fact, I think ive owned dussan quite sometimes with my archer :) no wounder he hates them. I’ll be waiting on the battle ground with my bow.



  • Lance - i was waiting for Your answer :)

    You are THE man with KNOWLEDGE :)

    Now i am starting to believe that story i stumbled upon some time ago, when a bunch of peasants dumped a king from a horse and tried to kill him / hurt him for about 30 minutes, until the succor came and put healthy king back on the saddle. King was, of course, in full-plate-shit.

    Damn, those days were so cool and are so underestimated, and popular knowledge of those ages as dark ages is bullshit.



  • I aim to inform and snuff false knowledge :)
    And yes, a bad archer is a bad archer. But a good one is feared ;)



  • @yush:

    Lance - i was waiting for Your answer :)

    You are THE man with KNOWLEDGE :)

    Now i am starting to believe that story i stumbled upon some time ago, when a bunch of peasants dumped a king from a horse and tried to kill him / hurt him for about 30 minutes, until the succor came and put healthy king back on the saddle. King was, of course, in full-plate-shit.

    Damn, those days were so cool and are so underestimated, and popular knowledge of those ages as dark ages is bullshit.

    There are so many versions of that story and it’s propably fake. Anyway, everything that peasants could have were pitchforks so their only chance to kill the king was finding a hole between the parts of his plate armor.



  • @Petters:

    @yush:

    Lance - i was waiting for Your answer :)

    You are THE man with KNOWLEDGE :)

    Now i am starting to believe that story i stumbled upon some time ago, when a bunch of peasants dumped a king from a horse and tried to kill him / hurt him for about 30 minutes, until the succor came and put healthy king back on the saddle. King was, of course, in full-plate-shit.

    Damn, those days were so cool and are so underestimated, and popular knowledge of those ages as dark ages is bullshit.

    There are so many versions of that story and it’s propably fake. Anyway, everything that peasants could have were pitchforks so their only chance to kill the king was finding a hole between the parts of his plate armor.

    Clearly you haven’t been paying attention. Please do not post an uneducated opinion on the facts of the matter that have been discussed, gone over, and actual historic evidence has dis-proven your uneducated statement through and through, they were not ‘pitchfork’ armed and the king himself would NEVER show his face on the front lines of a peasant revolt, let alone actually be at Wisby for the encounter in the first place. Do some more research before you go on about something you know little to nothing about.



  • I am just telling the story i heard :)
    And as every story it has a bunch of lies in it probably. So it was 10 minutes, not 30. It wasn’t bunch of peasants but three of them and it was not the king -_-
    :P



  • well yea, in any case, anger ridden common folk wouldnt have the calm sense to shove a knife in between the plates, they would just be so angry, they would be bashing whatever they could, and armor being as well made as it was (a suit of armor then was like buying a house now, and not a small one, a 4 bed 3 bath house on 2 acres of land)
    Moral of the story is, armor is there for your protection, and your life could depend on it.



  • Thats why i want some blows to be just bounced off heavy plated knight’s armor.



  • Yes but peasents are a smart bunch sometimes when they are angry.

    Take the french, Sure this is some time ahead but the guillotine. A tool of model speed used to take out the anger of kings alike.

    Yes off topic and yes a few hundred years in the future but i still dare say a few peasent may have toppled a king or 2.

    On topic, turn on a dime with full armour, Possible i believe but i still think for gameplay sake that there should be some difference in speed. i know for a fact that i personally couldnt keep up a good pace for over 20 mins in that stuff. Been there, Done that.



  • It´s probably offtopic but as you are talking about armors and there is an expert what do you think of the kevlar-knight-armour of the movie doomsday?

    @yush:

    Damn, those days were so cool and are so underestimated, and popular knowledge of those ages as dark ages is bullshit.

    Yeah being a nobleman in arms in the middle ages was pretty sweet but do not forget the continuos wars, the ravenous hunger, the bubonic plague and other diseases, the unhygienic conditions, the abusive and inhuman feudal cast system and the almost absolute ignorance and lack of culture of most of the population. The dark ages were as dark as my asshole don´t fool yourself and be grateful to live like kings in this age instead of being lying in the ground watching your blood mixing the dirt.


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