Sensible knockback nerf.



  • @Huggles:

    How to solve everything no problem? Increase vanguard base speed and get rid of sprint lockout.

    Did you just… no he surely… no way. no. nope. pls



  • Get rid of sprint lockout?

    Why play in 1st person if you do that lol.



  • Please no nerfs to underused and outclassed weapons.

    Inclines are generally the places where you go flying in ridiculous manners, which can happen from a lot of weapons due to the floaty nature of the game.



  • @Rekrab:

    Did you just… no he surely… no way. no. nope. pls

    Would you rather have knockback x 5000 or a vanny playing his role in a scrim and running through the ranks target switching like a mad man. While you’re at it reintroduce front chase mechanic.



  • @Huggles:

    How to solve everything no problem? Increase vanguard base speed and get rid of sprint lockout.

    Ahaha. Works for me!



  • im okay with this



  • @Huggles:

    Would you rather have knockback x 5000 or a vanny playing his role in a scrim and running through the ranks target switching like a mad man.

    Vanguards can already run fast enough to dodge like maa :3
    If you increased base speed then we would just get more backpedaling and have the same problem except also giving vanguard a buff.



  • forward chase fixes all backpedaling problems

    bring it back tbs

    PLSSSSS



  • @zombojoe:

    forward chase fixes all backpedaling problems

    bring it back tbs

    PLSSSSS

    oh rite. in that case doit tbs



  • I play knight and vanguard equally. Stop and think how many weapons are unviable against vanguards just because of the knockback (and stamina drain). If we’re readding forward chase (which I’ve been wanting to return forever) then let’s do that first before reducing knockback and see how it works.



  • @Huggles:

    In scrims that isn’t so easy. Also I main vanguard, I really don’t think k nockback is that necessary at all. Polearms need a buff but not like that. And spears are fine even without knockback. They don’t need to be tweaked.

    How to solve everything no problem? Increase vanguard base speed and get rid of sprint lockout.

    Please no, vanguards can already run circles around knights. Just fix GS, Brandi, and reduce knockback ever so slightly and they will be fine.



  • @SHH_:

    Please no, vanguards can already run circles around knights. Just fix GS, Brandi, and reduce knockback ever so slightly and they will be fine.

    Yes, and knights can two hit vanguards consistently with the majority of their weapons. Why nerf Brandi? It can’t combo, it’s stab is wayyy to long and it’s slash isn’t even that fast. It’s just the animation is sneaky as hell and sometimes looks like a parry at the start of it’s windup making it a beast in 1vx situations.

    knight’s purpose is to take hits and sih them back out, vanguards purpose is to fly around the battlefield and support knights, maa purpose is to just flinch the fuck out of everything and pick off straglers. Vanguards being buffed SLIGHTLY in speed and having increased mobility and newly added kiting abilities with removing sprint lockouts would give them a real specialty again. Reintroducing forward chase mechanic would give knights a way to counter this however forcing vanguards to actually think about their decisions tactically and pick the perfect moments to kite or to stand their ground.



  • @Huggles:

    Yes, and knights can two hit vanguards consistently with the majority of their weapons. Why nerf Brandi? It can’t combo, it’s stab is wayyy to long and it’s slash isn’t even that fast. It’s just the animation is sneaky as hell and sometimes looks like a parry at the start of it’s windup making it a beast in 1vx situations.

    knight’s purpose is to take hits and sih them back out, vanguards purpose is to fly around the battlefield and support knights, maa purpose is to just flinch the fuck out of everything and pick off straglers. Vanguards being buffed SLIGHTLY in speed and having increased mobility and newly added kiting abilities with removing sprint lockouts would give them a real specialty again. Reintroducing forward chase mechanic would give knights a way to counter this however forcing vanguards to actually think about their decisions tactically and pick the perfect moments to kite or to stand their ground.

    A lot of vanguard weapons 2-3 shot knights, have longer range, and are just as fast. The problem with the brandy is that it is fast (lmb), medium (OH), and slow (MW down) in speed. And the LMB needs to do way less damage and have a slightly longer windup.



  • remove slash from spears
    ez



  • @SHH_:

    A lot of vanguard weapons 2-3 shot knights, have longer range, and are just as fast.

    Umm no. Most are 3-4 and the attacks/weapons that do 2 shot are very slow and require significant accuracy. Polehammer is one of those weapons that are worthless, alongside zweihander. Brandi does it but it needs to overhead and both of them to the face. Knight weapons > vanguard weapons with the exception of greatsword. Knight has SOW, Messer, Poleaxe, and longsword. Despite what many say longsword is actually a bit of a beast, and grand mace isn’t even bad for skilled players. It seems to phase through a bit, but one of my clan mates discovered why and works around it quite well.

    Vanguard has halberd, billhook, greatsword, spear, and brandi. Spear is very good as a utility weapon and is great for supporting teamtes for it’s fast attacks and incredibly good range. It’s very sneaky going around your teamates and hitting the enemy when they least expect it. However, the damage isn’t quite great and again, it cannot combo. If you miss, you’re fucked if you can’t matrix or keep good distance. Billhook is sneaky as hell, hard to read, and well balanced. However it is short, and the htk isn’t as consistent with knights. It’s 3 most of the time, but sometimes 4. Greatsword as well all now is OP broken, and has no downsides. Brandi is great for duels, 1vx, and decent in scrims if yo ucan use it right. However, it’s very long release makes it a teamkilling animal and is hard to control for even the most competent of players or even those who have mained it for 1000s of hours and still seam to teamkill with it. Not pointing any fingers ofc shack shack shack shack shack Again, cannot combo, hugeee downside. Halberd has the range the balance, but doesn’t do anything paticularly awesome, just everything really good.

    What lacks with vanguards are the htk, and the speed most of the time. SOW is the bane of all vanguards and not to many weapons the vanguard has to counter this. Poleaxe despite it’s short range, is a monster with those stabs in teamplay and is very sneaky. Archers can pretty much one shot vannies with almost all of their range weapons to the head.

    Vanguards need a knockback nerf, and a mobility buff. Turns it from cheesing target switching and crowd control to masterful kiting tactics and finally turns it into a true support role. Adding back foward chase also allows knights to counter this, which then leads to more interdependence in combat as knights need vanguards support, while vanguards need the knights support etc etc.

    Less locking out of controls, more footwork please.



  • @Huggles:

    Umm no. Most are 3-4 and the attacks/weapons that do 2 shot are very slow and require significant accuracy. Polehammer is one of those weapons that are worthless, alongside zweihander. Brandi does it but it needs to overhead and both of them to the face. Knight weapons > vanguard weapons with the exception of greatsword. Knight has SOW, Messer, Poleaxe, and longsword. Despite what many say longsword is actually a bit of a beast, and grand mace isn’t even bad for skilled players. It seems to phase through a bit, but one of my clan mates discovered why and works around it quite well.

    Vanguard has halberd, billhook, greatsword, spear, and brandi. Spear is very good as a utility weapon and is great for supporting teamtes for it’s fast attacks and incredibly good range. It’s very sneaky going around your teamates and hitting the enemy when they least expect it. However, the damage isn’t quite great and again, it cannot combo. If you miss, you’re fucked if you can’t matrix or keep good distance. Billhook is sneaky as hell, hard to read, and well balanced. However it is short, and the htk isn’t as consistent with knights. It’s 3 most of the time, but sometimes 4. Greatsword as well all now is OP broken, and has no downsides. Brandi is great for duels, 1vx, and decent in scrims if yo ucan use it right. However, it’s very long release makes it a teamkilling animal and is hard to control for even the most competent of players or even those who have mained it for 1000s of hours and still seam to teamkill with it. Not pointing any fingers ofc shack shack shack shack shack Again, cannot combo, hugeee downside. Halberd has the range the balance, but doesn’t do anything paticularly awesome, just everything really good.

    What lacks with vanguards are the htk, and the speed most of the time. SOW is the bane of all vanguards and not to many weapons the vanguard has to counter this. Poleaxe despite it’s short range, is a monster with those stabs in teamplay and is very sneaky. Archers can pretty much one shot vannies with almost all of their range weapons to the head.

    Vanguards need a knockback nerf, and a mobility buff. Turns it from cheesing target switching and crowd control to masterful kiting tactics and finally turns it into a true support role. Adding back foward chase also allows knights to counter this, which then leads to more interdependence in combat as knights need vanguards support, while vanguards need the knights support etc etc.

    Less locking out of controls, more footwork please.

    I don’t recall the spreadsheet values off the top of my head but:

    Polehammer - 2htk
    Zweihander - 2htk

    GS - 3htk pretty consistently
    Billhook - 3 htk pretty consistently (I play billhook often)
    Spear - 3 htk
    Halberd - 3 htk
    Brandi - 2-3 htk

    Only 4 HTK are claymore and fork I believe, but I think claymore can technically 3 htk a knight. So you are right, most aren’t 2, but their range and van movement speed more than makes up for that.

    I think vanguard will be in a fine spot once GS and Brandi are nerfed. I maintain the main reason for the persistence of the knight heavy meta was simply due to archers and potentially the pre-patch LS and SoW. LS and SoW were addressed, and hopefully, TB actually nerfs archers in the coming patch, which will help vanguards the most.



  • @SHH_:

    I don’t recall the spreadsheet values off the top of my head but:

    Polehammer - 2htk
    Zweihander - 2htk

    GS - 3htk pretty consistently
    Billhook - 3 htk pretty consistently (I play billhook often)
    Spear - 3 htk
    Halberd - 3 htk
    Brandi - 2-3 htk

    Only 4 HTK are claymore and fork I believe, but I think claymore can technically 3 htk a knight.

    I think vanguard will be in a fine spot once GS and Brandi are nerfed. I maintain the main reason for the persistence of the knight heavy meta was simply due to archers and potentially the pre-patch LS and SoW. LS and SoW were addressed, and hopefully, TB actually nerfs archers in the coming patch, which will help vanguards the most.

    Zwei you need 2 overheads with one headshot, same as messer. Billhook you’ll get the 3 htk to the torso no matter what. slash/oh does chop so even 3 slashes will do it. Only reason i think you could get a 4 htk is dragging the stab too far and it goes into their foot or something. Brandi you need 2 Oh’s with one headshot, just like zwei and messer. Polehammer is the only consistent 2 htk there, but even as a knight i think its the easiest vanguard weapon to fight against. Really nothing you can do with it. PH could definitely use some more love.



  • @SHH_:

    I don’t recall the spreadsheet values off the top of my head but:

    Polehammer - 2htk
    Zweihander - 2htk

    GS - 3htk pretty consistently
    Billhook - 3 htk pretty consistently (I play billhook often)
    Spear - 3 htk
    Halberd - 3 htk
    Brandi - 2-3 htk

    Only 4 HTK are claymore and fork I believe, but I think claymore can technically 3 htk a knight.

    I think vanguard will be in a fine spot once GS and Brandi are nerfed. I maintain the main reason for the persistence of the knight heavy meta was simply due to archers and potentially the pre-patch LS and SoW. LS and SoW were addressed, and hopefully, TB actually nerfs archers in the coming patch, which will help vanguards the most.

    Pole Hammer and Zwei are useless compared to the rest, brandi isn’t two htk to the body. Billhook is rather consistent, spear is not. It usually takes 3-4. Halberd is consistent, and greatsword is actually pretty hard to maintain consistency if you’re lookdowning a lot. Sow is faster than most of the vanguard weapons and 2htk consistently if not a kick away, light kick at that. Poleaxe 2htk against vanguard fairly consistently. Messer extremely consistent with a 2htk especially with overheads. Double axe get’s the job done in 2. Maul does, grandmace does, and pretty much the majority of the knights arsenal can pull off that 2htk against vanguards. The sow being the best for the job. Which is totally fine, if the vanguard completely outclases the knight in mobility. Which it kinda does right now, but the only thing keeping knights away is absurd knockback which they rely on because knights are heavy on the ripostes to go in aggressively. A slight knockback nerf, removing sprint lockout, and a very slight speed increase will make vanguards good at what they should be good at.

    Reintroducing front chase will help knights keep up.

    Brandi doesn’t need a nerf, greatsword does. Brandi is fine dude, the slash has bad range does good damage and is pretty fast but not absurdly fast. Just a hard read on the animation. The stabs are very draggable too bad they’re slow as shit making for no the best support when your role as vanguard is support. And guess what, you can’t combo. Nerfing the brandi would soley be done in the interest of dueling which this game doesn’t revolve around.



  • @SHH_:

    Please no, vanguards can already run circles around knights. Just fix GS, Brandi, and reduce knockback ever so slightly and they will be fine.

    Vanguards don’t need nerfs they need buffs. Knockback however was a very bad way to buff them. Therefore if you want less knockback you need to show them some love somewhere else. Which would be mobility. You don’t even need the speed increase end sprint lockout and vanguard is instantly better again.

    Only people that complain about vanguards are pubstars that think charge is op and dragging is an exploit, alongside feints being cheap. Everyone else agrees they need a buff and most think knockback was the wrong way to go about it. Nerfing archers is also a must.



  • @Huggles:

    Pole Hammer and Zwei are useless compared to the rest, brandi isn’t two htk to the body. Billhook is rather consistent, spear is not. It usually takes 3-4. Halberd is consistent, and greatsword is actually pretty hard to maintain consistency if you’re lookdowning a lot. Sow is faster than most of the vanguard weapons and 2htk consistently if not a kick away, light kick at that. Poleaxe 2htk against vanguard fairly consistently. Messer extremely consistent with a 2htk especially with overheads. Double axe get’s the job done in 2. Maul does, grandmace does, and pretty much the majority of the knights arsenal can pull off that 2htk against vanguards. The sow being the best for the job. Which is totally fine, if the vanguard completely outclases the knight in mobility. Which it kinda does right now, but the only thing keeping knights away is absurd knockback which they rely on because knights are heavy on the ripostes to go in aggressively. A slight knockback nerf, removing sprint lockout, and a very slight speed increase will make vanguards good at what they should be good at.

    Reintroducing front chase will help knights keep up.

    Brandi doesn’t need a nerf, greatsword does. Brandi is fine dude, the slash has bad range does good damage and is pretty fast but not absurdly fast. Just a hard read on the animation. The stabs are very draggable too bad they’re slow as shit making for no the best support when your role as vanguard is support. And guess what, you can’t combo. Nerfing the brandi would soley be done in the interest of dueling which this game doesn’t revolve around.

    Brandi doesn’t need to be an all-around good weapon. The spear line are meant as support weapons, and they do that job extremely well, so why does the brandi need to have an incredibly quick finisher? I’m not saying completely destroy the weapon, I’m saying nerf the stupidly fast LMB crutch. It shouldn’t do the damage it does for how quick it is. If a spear user finds themselves in a 1vX situation, they messed up. The spears are by their nature – the reason they can’t combo – support weapons. And they do that very well, spears are probably the most powerful weapons in the game when played right.


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