How is current MAA dodge in any way defensible as a gameplay mechanic?



  • Can we not make broad generalizations about knight elitism? Not every knight feels the way you are making us out to. Yes I main knight, that doesn’t mean that I want any one class to be far better than any other. That doesn’t mean I think every other class should be nerfed or can’t recognize when my own is OP.

    Here is just my opinion. It isn’t a fact, you can agree or disagree.

    Dodge is frustrating. I don’t find MAA terribly OP even in duel situations and I honestly think they are pretty weak in team fights. My issue is this: it simply isn’t fun to play against dodge. In much the same way as vanguard charge, I personally feel like it doesn’t quite belong.

    That being said, it is far too late in the game and completely unfair to all MAA mains if dodge were to be removed. Here is what I’d like to see. I’d like to see the role of dodge de-emphasized, and MAA buffed in a way that increases their ability to contribute to team fights. If dodge is supposed to be a special ability, then personally, I don’t feel like it should be the main focus of the class.

    But please everyone, let’s discuss this without calling people out or anything like that



  • @SHH_:

    Can we not make broad generalizations about knight elitism? Not every knight feels the way you are making us out to. Yes I main knight, that doesn’t mean that I want any one class to be far better than any other. That doesn’t mean I think every other class should be nerfed or can’t recognize when my own is OP.

    Here is just my opinion. It isn’t a fact, you can agree or disagree.

    Dodge is frustrating. I don’t find MAA terribly OP even in duel situations and I honestly think they are pretty weak in team fights. My issue is this: it simply isn’t fun to play against dodge. In much the same way as vanguard charge, I personally feel like it doesn’t quite belong.

    That being said, it is far too late in the game and completely unfair to all MAA mains if dodge were to be removed. Here is what I’d like to see. I’d like to see the role of dodge de-emphasized, and MAA buffed in a way that increases their ability to contribute to team fights. If dodge is supposed to be a special ability, then personally, I don’t feel like it should be the main focus of the class.

    But please everyone, let’s discuss this without calling people out or anything like that

    That’s a fair point Shh. As someone who uses dodge, I enjoy the mechanic. I think it’s fun to use but can see how it’s not as fun to fight against. You probably feel that way because dodge makes you feel like you don’t have complete control of the fight. But to your point, that doesn’t mean it’s OP.

    They can try to change Dodge, but it shouldn’t be through a stam increase. A cooldown and off-setting buffs could work.



  • @SHH_:

    Here is just my opinion. It isn’t a fact, you can agree or disagree.

    Dodge is frustrating. I don’t find MAA terribly OP even in duel situations and I honestly think they are pretty weak in team fights. My issue is this: it simply isn’t fun to play against dodge. In much the same way as vanguard charge, I personally feel like it doesn’t quite belong.

    I agree with this. Fighting a stamina battle isn’t fun when it involves forcing dodge after dodge out of your opponent before you can even land a hit.

    If a knight or vanguard is insanely good, I’ll still have a blast fighting them, because we’ll be trading blows in melee and if they make a mistake I’ll be able to hit them. And I won’t be forced to feint to do that.



  • With how absolutely broken the game is, there’s a reason why I never kendo or duel with maa. The low health pool matters when shit goes straight through parries, ghost swings happening after every parry, skipping animation frames, shoddy hit registration. Literally all one has to do to beat a maa in duels is to go knight + norse and just riposte, because you will almost always be able to hit them in the dodge tracer regardless of where their physical model is, regardless of their reaction time, and regardless of how spot on their parrying is. Even the Europeans and their consistent sub 40 ping can testify to this without having to experience how god awful anything over 75 is in actuality. Just stepping back and taking a look at the state the game is in from a competitive standpoint makes this game and TB’s attempts at fixing it laughable. Over 90% of the people on this forum have no clue what I’m talking about, so you guys can gladly ignore me. To the people who actually matter: just realize already how dead this game is. Take a look at the state of the game and the company that runs it; consider all the balancing, coding, marketing, and comp scene of this game and all spinoffs from this company, and realize that there is no point arguing over balance because do you really expect this to matter in the long run? Just play the game for the sake of it, enjoy what hooked you into this game in the first place, and realize that this will never be a thing. Let the children argue and make all the balance changes they want. Let them think they are worth something, because what harm could they possibly do coloring on with crayon something that’s getting thrown out anyways?



  • @Stinker:

    Take a look at the state of the game and the company that runs it; consider all the balancing, coding, marketing, and comp scene of this game and all spinoffs from this company, and realize that there is no point arguing over balance because do you really expect this to matter in the long run? Just play the game for the sake of it, enjoy what hooked you into this game in the first place, and realize that this will never be a thing. Let the children argue and make all the balance changes they want. Let them think they are worth something, because what harm could they possibly do coloring on with crayon something that’s getting thrown out anyways?

    We can still offer suggestions for how to balance certain aspects of the game, so when the imminent chiv clones are developed people know what to implement, what to stay away from and why. Faith in future titles is pretty much the only reason I still sit around shitposting on here, god knows CMW is beyond fixing without starting from scratch.



  • @Mystikkal:

    Wall of nonsense.

    Why should I duel against crappy NA knights? Obviously they’ll win when I got 160 ping.



  • Haha well said Stinker, thanks for summy that up



  • @Xylvion:

    Why should I duel against crappy NA knights? Obviously they’ll win when I got 160 ping.

    Yeah these freaken hakn lagn classes requiere no skill but only ping to win….



  • @TheFunnySide:

    Yeah these freaken hakn lagn classes requiere no skill but only ping to win….

    what are you even talking about?



  • @Stinker:

    there is no point arguing over balance because do you really expect this to matter in the long run?

    Admitting apathy towards a topic is not a good way to convince others to consider your viewpoint on the matter, it will just detract from what you are trying to convey.



  • Fuck you guys saying maa needs dodge removed, seriously. maa had dodge before the june 2013 patch and he wasnt as broken op then as he is now, because the game was actually good and balanced. you had longer feint windows to make cftp more viable, and more stamina to make cftp more viable, things that were an integral part of defeating maa’s back in the day. you had forward chase so maa’s backpedaling wasnt impossible to punish. fucking think you idiots. we just need the old game back, and the game will be good.



  • Was MAA always able to dodge out of parry? I am literally immune to feints when I play MAA lol. I think deciding whether or not to remove dodge in parry/release is really all that matters, those are really the only times dodge feels BS because normal dodges can be punished with chasing, LMBing, or stab dragging.

    Playing MAA is already awful above 70 ping while tolerable for Knight/Van and more than fine for Spearguard.



  • @Psyfon:

    Fuck you guys saying maa needs dodge removed, seriously. maa had dodge before the june 2013 patch and he wasnt as broken op then as he is now, because the game was actually good and balanced. you had longer feint windows to make cftp more viable, and more stamina to make cftp more viable, things that were an integral part of defeating maa’s back in the day. you had forward chase so maa’s backpedaling wasnt impossible to punish. fucking think you idiots. we just need the old game back, and the game will be good.

    So no dodge cooldown, superdodge, attacking during dodge, superjumps that could be executed with any setup by just dodging and jumping. . . Is that balanced? MAA was even worse back then.
    //By worse I mean better.



  • @Xylvion:

    So no dodge cooldown, superdodge, attacking during dodge, superjumps that could be executed with any setup by just dodging and jumping. . . Is that balanced? MAA was even worse back then.

    I have found that people always defend previous builds of a game. They tend to only think of the current issues and forget about the prior complaints. I would argue that the game is in a better state now than it was “back in the day”.



  • @Xylvion:

    I don’t play knight though, I mostly play MAA or archer.
    Anyhow, a feint costs 15 stamina. a missed strike with a 2h costs 15 stamina, missing with a 1h costs 10 stamina.
    So if I feint and then miss my upcoming attack while using a 2h I’ve wasted 30 stamina. Then I might have to CFtP as the MAA gets initiative, so again 15 stamina and then 7+ stamina from parrying the MAAs weapon. This would mean 15+15+15+7 =52 while using a 2h, if I instead used a 1h it’d be 15+10+15+7=47 (obviously I just chanced on the parry negotiation but as 7 is the least amount of stamina you can use for parrying I used that).
    Conclusion: You’re right I used the wrong numbers I should’ve said 25-55 instead.

    You have called out that parry and dodge out is a mistake, but you are implying that feinting…. AND THEN swinging to a dodging maa and THEN CFTP isn’t!!!



  • @Fafnir:

    You have called out that parry and dodge out is a mistake, but you are implying that feinting…. AND THEN swinging to a dodging maa and THEN CFTP isn’t!!!

    Ofc it isn’t, the MAA isn’t supposed to be able to dodge right after he made a mistake and parried at the wrong time.
    The other option, if you’re not yet past your release phase, is to feint the second attack as well. That way you’d lose 30 stamina instead.



  • @Xylvion:

    the MAA isn’t supposed

    Exactly, what you think. That’s all this thread is. A bunch of whiny knights and vanguards upset that they’re too slow to keep up with the nimble zero heath man at arms.

    Just stop already. You basically destroyed the only viable maa weapon, ‘fixed’ dodge out of flinch, and now you’re onto the next thing? Calling it now, this whole forum will be crawling with “get rid of dodge” threads by the end of this year and you know what? TB will listen to the overwhelming majority of these tryhard draggers who can’t keep up with us.



  • Uhm I guess we should suppose that knights can’t sprint while dragging or move while doing counter attacks, because attacks aren’t supposed to hit a dodging maa.



  • @a:

    Was MAA always able to dodge out of parry?

    I am not sure when it was introduced, but I can’t seem to find anything about it before April of this year.



  • @Mystikkal:

    I have found that people always defend previous builds of a game. They tend to only think of the current issues and forget about the prior complaints. I would argue that the game is in a better state now than it was “back in the day”.

    i disagree, the game was much more fun overall despite all the bugs

    you can discuss balance all you want but more people enjoyed the game back then


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