How is current MAA dodge in any way defensible as a gameplay mechanic?



  • @Xylvion:

    ^In teamfights I’d say yes, they don’t have the reach and armour of the other melee classes so it’s hard to do 1vN, unless you’re using morningstar or dane axe, without dodging. The dodge can be nerfed, ie: remove the ability to combo off of a dodge, remove the ability to dodge out of flinch or stuns (which shouldn’t even be possible in the first place), it would also be possible to lower the cooldown of it from 0.3 seconds to 0.5-1.0 so it can’t be spammed.

    Or we could remove dodge and rework MAA so he could work without crutch mechanics.



  • @rumpelstiltskin:

    Or we could remove dodge and rework MAA so he could work without crutch mechanics.

    Well if you remove dodge you will have to give MAA i turn unlimited stamina because all you are doing is blocking -> getting knocked back -> blocking waitng for your hatched to get into range…
    Its unfair for a MAA to block because it takes more stamina to block for the MAA then everybody else.
    At least the stamina drain has to be equalised between all weapons so it is more attractive to block for MAA



  • Changing stamina values would affect other classes since most MAA primaries are secondaries for knight and vanguard.



  • Obviously it should affect the other classes too so we can maybe finaly see some axe Vanguard which are horribly underpowered because of the same reasons as MAA



  • @TheFunnySide:

    Obviously it should affect the other classes too

    I honestly don’t think that knight should get better stamina values on broad/norse.

    @TheFunnySide:

    so we can maybe finaly see same axe Vanguard which are horribly underpowered because of the same reasons as MAA

    Are u talking about that 0.05 windup nerf on dane axe overhead?

    The reason why MAAs dont use dane axe anymore is because maa meta completly shifted after june patch, not because that silly nerf.



  • From what i know Dane axe got rect by handle nerf but i am not realy talking about dane.
    I am talking about the short ranged weapons that actually have to block multible times before getting into range.
    Its unbeleaveable imballanced that the same weapons that have to block more often also suffer more stamina drain against the other commonly used weapons.
    You dont see hatched Vanguard or Flaged Mace Knight because of knockback + stamdrain bullshit



  • That’s because vanguards and knights are supposed to use their primary weapons instead. You don’t see MAAs running with daggers either.



  • @rumpelstiltskin:

    That’s because vanguards and knights are supposed to use their primary weapons instead. You don’t see MAAs running with daggers either.

    Which is your opinion developers have never said so. Your point becomes even weaker then you notice these weapons being the primary of a melee class that could without dodge be named Vanguard II



  • So you are saying that primary and secondary weapons should be on par with each other in terms of viability?



  • remove dodge and make MAA useful in some other way, like giving it the shitty archer primaries (longbow/shortbow/sling) and shitty knight/vg primaries (claymore/bardiche?/fork/bearded/warhammer)



  • @Albert!:

    remove dodge and make MAA useful in some other way, like giving it the shitty archer primaries (longbow/shortbow/sling) and shitty knight/vg primaries (claymore/bardiche?/fork/bearded/warhammer)

    maa with fork
    THE HORROR



  • @Albert!:

    remove dodge and make MAA useful in some other way, like giving it the shitty archer primaries (longbow/shortbow/sling) and shitty knight/vg primaries (claymore/bardiche?/fork/bearded/warhammer)

    claymore isn’t shitty, and they should definitely not receive any form of ranged.

    sling op idk what you’re saying top kek



  • just gibe MAA buffed ninja roll

    the gr8 thing about ninja roll is it cant be used to attack



  • @rumpelstiltskin:

    maa with fork
    THE HORROR

    The thought of that makes me want to rip the thought out of my brain with my hand through my ear.



  • @Nohbdy111:

    The thought of that makes me want to rip the thought out of my brain with my hand through my ear.

    maa would probably be easier to deal with tho cuz no cftp and all the spear weapons arent that hard to read



  • @CRUSHED:

    maa is fine, doesnt need any change

    he’s right.



  • @J-D:

    he’s right.

    Seriously, maa is fine. If you wanna ‘fix’ it more then just make sure dodge out of parry into attack is patched (bc that’s bullshit) and maybe make dodge cost 25% stamina but honestly things are pretty fine the way they are.



  • MAA in it’s current gimp form is easily defeatable. Make him dodge twice and then you have the advantage in the stamina mini game.



  • @Hammertime:

    MAA in it’s current gimp form is easily defeatable. Make him dodge twice and then you have the advantage in the stamina mini game.

    Unless they casually walk backwards almost as quickly as a Knight sprint.



  • Let’s see what a good maa is supposed to do NOW, vs what a good maa was supposed to do BEFORE, in order to see the current state of MAA, shall we?

    But first of all, let’s consider what a GOOD MAA in any case should be able to do:
    -Parry any attack (going from side attacks, to reading feints…cough gamble, drags, accelerated hits, counterattacks etc).
    -Perform any attack (coughgamblecoughfeints, comboes, side stabs, side stab comboes, accelerated, reverse etc)
    -Dodge, pretty basic, the enemy attack you dodge and attack.
    -Feint to parry
    -Combo to parry
    -Read the enemy movements and try to use the faster secondary weapon you have, to anticipate their attacks and FLINCH them.
    -Avoid trading, it results in 1-hit-rekt against strong weapons.

    So basically a NEWBIE Maa player would be probably doing direct attacks, not even trying to go for the side attacks, just going for the dodge-attack->repeat.
    While a SKILLED Maa that has reached the skill cap would try to anticipate the enemy movements, reading if they are going to dodge (against another maa) to attack in that direction, or flinch them, attacking before they do, doing accurate dodges, micro managing his stamina, side attacks etc.

    Well looks like is still so right? Nope (OBVIOUSLY GENERALLY SPEAKING, a skilled maa can still beat a newbie maa). But roughly, imho, things have reversed. Now bad MAAs who all they do is dodge attacking have the advantage against more thoughtful-style minded Maa. Why?

    Because Torn Banner decided to increase all weapons windup to 0.4 seconds and they also removed Flinch in Release on top of that.

    Obviously all the Knights and Vanguards don’t see anything wrong with that, in fact the poll shows at least 40 players who voted no for FiR, against the 13 (me included) who voted yes on it (so now you know on which side am I :P) and now what I see is that there’s even people complaining on the dodge.

    Let me explain why, in my opinion after the latest patch and those two changes I said up there, the MAA is the weakest class out there.

    Currently I have around 800 or more hours as Maa, so I’m kinda biased towards the class, but I’m also honestly trying to bring balance to the game, hoping that someone out there will back me up, with saying that MAA right now is a class that any healthy mind player would avoid playing, at least in competitive-ish contexts (clan wars et similia) or 1v1s against skilled opponents.

    LET’S BEGIN (YES ALL THE ABOVE WAS JUST AN INTRODUCTION :P) TLDR-> START FROM HERE (and then go back up if you got doubts on why I’m telling you this)

    Let’s see what a good maa is supposed to do NOW, vs what a good maa was supposed to do BEFORE, in order to see the current state of MAA, shall we?

    The old playstyle I had was me, going for a trade knowing that slower weapons (but mostly, players whith slow reaction or with an overly defensive playstyle), would get flinched during release time, if I were to attack before them, or roughly at the same time if they had a slower weapon. So the “trade” (that really isn’t a trade, because WEAPON SPEED is actually a relevant stat right??!), would come out unpunished from me.
    That is how I assured victory against knights who tried to go for the trades or those who were overly defensive. Knights who were really good at parrying would still be good with 2handed, those who weren’t could go for 1h to compensate and trade hits where they managed to.

    IF THE enemy was just a counter attacking opponent, I would dodge out and attack. IF they ctp, I would dodge out again, because as you all know, if he were to counterattack and I happened to parry… well parry as a maa is not an option, it’s suicide. (At least that’s the feeling right now after all the recent changes).
    IF THE enemy danced around I’d let him waste stamina, flinching him while he was doing his strange rituals,(still had to be careful not to get a hit tho), but eventually you’d flinch him, stopping the weird combos.
    IF THE enemy was a skilled player with 2h, NOW THAT would be a fair duel, in which I was forced to dodge from time to time, trying go get an edge on him, while he had to have fast reactions ctp or ftp in order to win.
    IF THE enemy had 1h nordic, and shield. (Najo’s playstyle for the Europeans ;) ) You’d have to have really fast reaction times and dodge out aswell to get an edge.
    IF THE enemy was feinting. well f**k feinting, that’s all gambling, no real discussion to be done.

    What happened to the MAA playstyle you’ll say then?

    well going back to my point: “Torn Banner decided to increase all weapons windup to 0.4 seconds and they also removed Flinch in Release on top of that, and reduced flinch time of 2h ot 0.8s”

    What does that mean in ACTUAL gameplay/Playstyle for all MAAs out there?

    It means that knights and vanguards now are in a rampaging new hit trade meta, both in duels and in lot of players vs lot of players situations.
    How does that affect maa? In duels all you can do is dodge out of counter attacks, slowly draining the enemy stamina while he does parry/counterattack/ftp repeat.

    But im the case the enemy is too aggressive, you’re still screwed because there are situations in which you just can’t dodge (vanguards I’m watching your kilometric weapon ranges), and the increased windup time and removal of FiR, made so that going aggressive against a moderately reflex-ready knight ends up with a trade, giving them the huge advantage which is, an hit on a maa.

    What happens tho, if by chance you get to actually hit and flinch your enemy? (His reaction times must be really slow tho, so It happens rarely on more skilled players) They’ll start slowly retreating, bringing in that f****d up meta that is the backpedaling trade meta. I’ve seen opponents that walk from one side of the map to the other, regenerating their hp, and then going for the trade unpunished, occasionally parrying (because they don’t get any actualy stamina drain in that, and because they’ll never get flinched even if they attack after you do with a slower weapon).

    MAA HAS BECOME a slow snail, frail, inadapt to many players vs many players situations (if it wasn’t for the firepots, but still weaker than a good archer)… and now even weaker than ever in duels where at least it used to be kinda “good”. (against less experienced players for sure, but against equal skill it was a fair fight imho).

    Let me repeat, maa can’t even flinch 2 handed anymore. Because of 0.4 windup, because of 0.8 flinch time, because of no more flinch in release, because of bad servers AND because of matrix movements which also help knights and vanguards to trade!!

    And FINALLY, I have to change class, because I don’t want to be a dodging-machine-like MAA player in order to win a duel (which is still useless against back pedaling) when I used to have an edge on opponents if my reactions times were faster!!!

    Thanks Torn Banner for making me change class!

    That is all. Fapnir out.


Log in to reply