[Idea] Conquest/LTS map



  • Hi, I was thinking about a new map and mode for chivalry MW.
    Sort of LTS and "Conquest"
    The first team to capture all points or kill all the ennemy team wins.
    The only way to allows friends to respawn, is to capture a point.

    I made five zones of conquest ( blue circles ) but it may be too mutch. Three could work.

    So as I’m not good at all with UDK, it’s all for you modders, use and change the concept, the map as you like !
    Do you think it could be possible to do it on UDK ? And would it be an interesting game mode to play ?



  • This is a real nice concept.

    I belive it is possible to do in UDK (through kismet). I think someone (or even a dev) posted an example of a “ticket” system which could be used in this scenario.

    Art concept like this looks amazing. I would totally make this happen, but I need to finish up few things first. ;)



  • Cool ! Of course Finish your stuff first ( forest ? ) ;)
    Actually I don’t think tickets would even been needed : the game can last as long as at least 1 men is alive in both teams, and once a point is captured, all the dead players of the capturing team respawn at the same time. No one respawn even if the team has all the five points under control. It needs a capture.
    In that case the enemies must all die, and it’s won.
    But the points only allow to respawn, nothing more : a team with no points under control can win if all it’s ennemies are killed.

    It could bring some more strategy, for example, not to capture a point if only 2guys of your team are dead, and wait that more gets killed, to maximise the respawn effect.

    That’s how I see it, but it’s not definitive and of course it’s totally up to you as you’ll do the hard work :p

    thanks for the kind words ;)



  • i could make this happen tbh, i already have a proof of concept with working kismet for this

    idk about a ticket system but i remember reading about it should be pretty trivial to implement

    probably have to use HUD markers to display the count or text messages

    looking at the map its not exactly mirrored but its a pretty decent layout



  • I’ll volunteer to be on the team if this is going to happen. I can just take the job nobody wants. Like tedious tree copy-pasting or somethng.

    Or I can do landscape, house placement or something actually fun like that.

    Comments about the idea though:
    1. Agatha spawn castle should be in the background. Spawns aren’t as necessary for lts-style maps, and decorating a castle is a lot of work.
    2. Concerning the actual gameplay idea, yeah sounds great and doable.
    3. I’m thinking that there needs to be more stairs around the Mason spawn, people will just want to jump off the cliff, inflicting fall damage, and that’s no fun.
    4. That’s a lot of houses, there are really only 3 different shapes of cottage meshes, so it might be repetitive, also a huge hassel to decorate, so they might be outside only. (Depends on who’s doing it)
    5. The Mason control points are actually easier to capture than Agatha’s, which brings me to number six.
    6. Disregard number two, LTS matches are really fast, and yes, people respawn when you capture a point, but even then I believe that winning by capture will be very rare, and that the only capture-point fighting will be at the bridge.
    I like the idea of a LTS-To kind of thing, but it won’t work with only one lif-
    7. Okay, disregard number six, I’m having second thoughts now. So every time your team captures a point you get more lives? So it’s super resource-based. Hmm. I still think that everyone will die before everywhere is captured though.

    Like I was going to say, I think this would work well with instead of a life system, just a very long respawn time, but that changes depending on how many points are captured. So killing somebody still takes them out of the game for a long time, and capturing still affects how many of your players are on the field, except that you have to win by capture.



  • I was working some time ago on conquest mode (I’d really love to have this mode in Chiv as it’s one of my fav multiplayer gamemode), I had working recapturable zones, but got stuck on creating proper ticket system. Some of TO2 kismet work in a really weird manner. Could be I missed something, they could be broken too. http://forums.tornbanner.com/showthread.php/21438-Problem-with-Enemy-Kill-event-node
    My current fix to that resulted in multikills counting as 1 ticket, so not ideal. Maybe someone can find other way to detect players death, I couldn’t.



  • This sounds great. hm in grailcastle there is a changing capture zone/spawn, so it should be all possible.

    small font = nay
    tall font = yay



  • Hmm… I like the ticket system better than LTS idea for this type of game mode. Your proposed idea of capturing points to respawn teammates seems like it would lead to a lot of kiting and running away tactics.

    Bring in some good ol BF style conquest and I’m sold! Having multiple areas of engagement across a large map would allow for games of 32+ players to actually make sense. Have points be strategically meaningful in the grand scheme of the map, like having a catapult which would make encourage to really stick to the points.

    The more I think of it, the more an open conquest style game mode would be perfect! No more cluster f**ks with large servers!!

    Also design the maps so the points matter to each other. Going back to my catapult idea.
    Scenario:

    Point B over looks Point C, but Point B has a catapult. So if you control B, you have the ability to rain hell on C. This would make teams want to plan how they will capture points knowing the ramifications they have on other points. That was just an idea off the top of my head, but stuff like that!



  • @Skindiacus:

    I’ll volunteer to be on the team if this is going to happen. I can just take the job nobody wants. Like tedious tree copy-pasting or somethng.

    Or I can do landscape, house placement or something actually fun like that.

    Comments about the idea though:
    1. Agatha spawn castle should be in the background. Spawns aren’t as necessary for lts-style maps, and decorating a castle is a lot of work.
    2. Concerning the actual gameplay idea, yeah sounds great and doable.
    3. I’m thinking that there needs to be more stairs around the Mason spawn, people will just want to jump off the cliff, inflicting fall damage, and that’s no fun.
    4. That’s a lot of houses, there are really only 3 different shapes of cottage meshes, so it might be repetitive, also a huge hassel to decorate, so they might be outside only. (Depends on who’s doing it)
    5. The Mason control points are actually easier to capture than Agatha’s, which brings me to number six.
    6. Disregard number two, LTS matches are really fast, and yes, people respawn when you capture a point, but even then I believe that winning by capture will be very rare, and that the only capture-point fighting will be at the bridge.
    I like the idea of a LTS-To kind of thing, but it won’t work with only one lif-
    7. Okay, disregard number six, I’m having second thoughts now. So every time your team captures a point you get more lives? So it’s super resource-based. Hmm. I still think that everyone will die before everywhere is captured though.

    Like I was going to say, I think this would work well with instead of a life system, just a very long respawn time, but that changes depending on how many points are captured. So killing somebody still takes them out of the game for a long time, and capturing still affects how many of your players are on the field, except that you have to win by capture.

    1 : Yeah true ! No need to even bee a castle. It can be some tents, a small camp.
    2,6,7 : actually as said ChuckingIt, a classic Conquest mode ( as in battlefield ) could work perfectly.
    3 : If you look well I made a little stone wall preventing to jump directly on the nearest point. I’ll make the stairs bigger, and maybe add one.
    4 : Aw… I wasn’t aware there were that few houses models. Is that confirmed ? That’s really few… I’ll delete some of them, replace with fields, forest…
    5 : that’s true. It’s not really mirrored as zombojoe noticed. I’ll try to make it even.

    @ChuckingIt:

    Hmm… I like the ticket system better than LTS idea for this type of game mode. Your proposed idea of capturing points to respawn teammates seems like it would lead to a lot of kiting and running away tactics.

    Bring in some good ol BF style conquest and I’m sold! Having multiple areas of engagement across a large map would allow for games of 32+ players to actually make sense. Have points be strategically meaningful in the grand scheme of the map, like having a catapult which would make encourage to really stick to the points.

    The more I think of it, the more an open conquest style game mode would be perfect! No more cluster f**ks with large servers!!

    Also design the maps so the points matter to each other. Going back to my catapult idea.
    Scenario:

    Point B over looks Point C, but Point B has a catapult. So if you control B, you have the ability to rain hell on C. This would make teams want to plan how they will capture points knowing the ramifications they have on other points. That was just an idea off the top of my head, but stuff like that!

    That’s true ! I had not thought about this issue ^^
    So yeah. A classic Conquest could work fine !

    And I’ll work more on the map, see if I can add a catapult, maybe a balist, sutch things. A > B > C > D > A shema would be perfect, I’ll try to do that ! Could be challenging … :D

    @Ferum:

    I was working some time ago on conquest mode (I’d really love to have this mode in Chiv as it’s one of my fav multiplayer gamemode), I had working recapturable zones, but got stuck on creating proper ticket system. Some of TO2 kismet work in a really weird manner. Could be I missed something, they could be broken too. http://forums.tornbanner.com/showthread.php/21438-Problem-with-Enemy-Kill-event-node
    My current fix to that resulted in multikills counting as 1 ticket, so not ideal. Maybe someone can find other way to detect players death, I couldn’t.

    Hmmm… Well yeah, as it’s the base of this mode, if someone could try to confirm if it’s doable, that would be great :p



  • First of all, maybe this should go in SDK chat rather than the finished maps section, as it is currently and unfortunately just an idea.

    Technically there are 4 different houses, but model 1 and three are the same shape with different door placements, and model 4 is just longer. And by “houses” I mean those stoneshill-type, grass-roof generic villager houses. There are other models for houses, but none other like that.
    But if an actual team is formed, creating more houses could be a possibility. (We can use the mesh painter to put grass on the roof and wood/stone on the side. All we would need is a mesh)

    I thought the stone wall was a path XD. But good thinking, except that spawns should have multiple exits.



  • -added A B C D E
    -moved E to be mirrored
    -moved agatha spawn to be mirrored
    -added new exits from mason’s spawn
    -added little cliffs around spawns to prevent spawn access
    -added catapult on E, balista on C and ammo box on A

    -deleted some houses, added some trees and stuff.

    What do you think ?

    @Skindiacus : Yeah if and admin pass by, he can move the topic in a more apropriate place :p
    About the houses, I think the Stones hill ones should do it. There are at least two different ones that you can enter, a kinda church, and the peasants houses.



  • You can enter all of them. But most are blocked off with doors.

    Labeling, smart.
    Important note, volumes are square, not circles. Doesn’t really change anything, but just so you know. Also, the capture places need to be clearly indicated by HUD and by flags. The limits of the capture volumes also need to be clear.

    -There has to be more ammo boxes
    -There really is nothing on the hill beside C, I think the ballista should go there. (Also, a ballista RIGHT in the place the Masons have to go would be OP)
    -Yay, inaccessible spawns. They may need little palisade barriers though so you can’t actually see people spawning

    Yeah, I’m kinda exited about this now. Maybe do some more concept art or something? Please?

    Anyway, if anybody wants to do this, tell me.



  • Ok thanks for the info ;)
    -about the ammo box, just one on A could be nice, I wanted to make this objective interesting to capture. But if you have another idea…
    -Yeah this hill is a bit empty. The balista could be placed there, and have only a partial view of two obj. Like A and E.
    -Yup like that ( _ )

    I’m making another painting, more in 3D, coming soon.

    _Map updated with palisades around spawns, made capturable points squares and moved balista.



  • I think there should be ammo boxes at E and C, but it’s your choice.

    But really, anybody else want to help?



  • There should be ammo boxes at B and D you mean ? E and C already have catapult/balista.
    D is the hight spot, with woods and foliage. Good for the archers to shoot at E and A.
    B is the high village side, roofs and walls to protect you with maybe more buildings to enter than C.

    But A needs something valuable to go for. It can be the ammo box, or something else.
    Imo, an ammo box elsewhere than in the middle, would lead to camping from the archers. Placing it in the middle would make the A very coveted point to hold and defend.

    And don’t worry, Vesanus replied he was up to do it once he finished his current maps ! Zombojoe seems up to give a hand, and you Skindiacus. So it will happen :D
    For now we need to work on the playability of the map in theory.



  • What about using the banners from CTF to capture points quicker or some other bonus? I’ve always been thinking about having bannermen/standard bearers in Chivalry, but what should they be used for? In a Conquest type of game mode, they could help capturing and keeping locations by standing on the certain area of capture (like a town square or top of a tower) and wave the flag. If that’s not a good bonus, or not a good enough, they could also increase stamina regen for friendlies around him or something.

    You’d also get to wield the flag as a weapon, which many people are a fan of.



  • Very well, I suppose only one ammo box could be interesting.

    Hmmm. I like that idea actually. Capture volumes are pretty generic, it might be neat to have a system akin to Belmez’s.
    Example: Agatha brings flag from spawn, places it at A. Masons break the Agatha flag at A and place their flag.

    I’m thinking the Agatha flag would be right in front of the broken bridge, and the Mason flag would be just right of their spawn.



  • @SavageBeatings:

    What about using the banners from CTF to capture points quicker or some other bonus? I’ve always been thinking about having bannermen/standard bearers in Chivalry, but what should they be used for? In a Conquest type of game mode, they could help capturing and keeping locations by standing on the certain area of capture (like a town square or top of a tower) and wave the flag. If that’s not a good bonus, or not a good enough, they could also increase stamina regen for friendlies around him or something.

    You’d also get to wield the flag as a weapon, which many people are a fan of.

    Very nice idea ! But kinda hard to make it work. It needs to be well defined.

    What is good with conquest mode, is that you can get around the enemies and capture their point with few people. Forcing some of them to come back to defend, weakening their army.

    The good thing about banners bearers is that makes the map more dynamic, with hot spots moving and important targets to kill.

    Hmmm. I like that idea actually. Capture volumes are pretty generic, it might be neat to have a system akin to Belmez’s.
    Example: Agatha brings flag from spawn, places it at A. Masons break the Agatha flag at A and place their flag.

    I’m thinking the Agatha flag would be right in front of the broken bridge, and the Mason flag would be just right of their spawn.

    That actually could work ! Could involve a lot of “round trip”, but actually just one guy could go get the banner, while the rest of the team defend a point or attack another, breack the banner and hold 'till the bearer arrive. Could bring some nice ambushes of the bearer too, kinda like the idea.

    maybe it would be better if five banners were at the spawn. never more than 5 banners at the same time for each team, including the ones planted. This would allow multiple points attacks.
    for a less messy and fast game start ( than five banner bearer right at the start ), it could also works that way :
    1 banner spawn for each team. Each time a banner is planted for agatha ( I.E ), this team earn a second flag. max 5 flags.
    Five bannermen could happen to weild the banner at the same time if the other team capture all points, so in mid/end game.

    Waving the flag ( with battlecry ) to capture could be really fun, but the enemy banner should be destroyed first, in order to make the capture take more time and therefore more challenging.

    Could be great to know if a good “ticket” system could be done for this before venturing forth ^^’



  • Very correct. Figuring out the ticket mechanics has priority.

    I’d prefer teams getting the flag one at a time rather than 5 spawning all at once.



  • Bwaaaaaaa….

    'cause why not.


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