Lets Help TBS Balance Messer



  • If you haven’t already checked they just released a new beta patch which I’m very happy to see but there seems to be some confusion on why Messer slash was nerfed instead of the OH.

    In the beta patch slash damage on Messer was reduced from 95 to 90 removing its ability to one shot MAA but leaving the OH untouched.

    I thought it might be a good idea to take a poll and see what the majority of the community would like to see happen to Messer.

    I made the poll multiple choice so you would vote on what you thought about the OH windup/slash DMG as well as the OH DMG.


  • Global Moderator

    I still don’t know why they though reducing messer LMB damage was a good idea lol. “They want the messer nerfed, lets change random values”.



  • Because TBS barely plays their own game and it’s obvious that we keep repeating the same suggestions on the forums about balance over and over again and yet they still somehow managed to misread.

    Unless they thought that the LMB was unbalanced. But I’m pretty sure they only test this game on LAN with a few players that never feint or drag, which is how all those server-side and game-mechanical bugs manage to slip through new patch releases.

    So let’s just keep saying we want Messer OH nerfed and we should be good to go eventually.



  • They could change the OH damage from 90->95 and the damage type from chop to cut and the OH would 1hit MAAs to the head while not being able to 2hit knights. Increase OH windup to 0.6 while keeping slash windup at 0.525. Keep slash at 90 damage as it’s the easiest attack to land, or slash could even be dropped to 85 damage and still 1hit archers, 2hit Vanguards to the torso, but not torso+feet. (If the OH changes were made that is).
    The weapon would still be viable but it would make the other swords more attractive.



  • accidentally voted for the second option, meant to go for the first one lel



  • @Xylvion:

    They could change the OH damage from 90->95 and the damage type from chop to cut and the OH would 1hit MAAs to the head while not being able to 2hit knights. Increase OH windup to 0.6 while keeping slash windup at 0.525. Keep slash at 90 damage as it’s the easiest attack to land, or slash could even be dropped to 85 damage and still 1hit archers, 2hit Vanguards to the torso, but not torso+feet. (If the OH changes were made that is).
    The weapon would still be viable but it would make the other swords more attractive.

    best suggestion upboated



  • @zombojoe:

    best suggestion upboated

    Ew no. Especially because chop sounds way cooler than cut



  • Since when did TBS listen to polls. Archer nerf was like 80% in favor. Did we get an archer damage nerf - nope.

    I guess we have to wait another month before any other tiny changes.



  • remove messers knight 2 shotting ability. increase windups, decrease release, thank you very much.



  • @Psyfon:

    remove messers knight 2 shotting ability. increase windups, decrease release, thank you very much.

    retarded overnerf



  • @swagfox:

    retarded overnerf

    messer is OP for the same reasons the greatsword was op except it doesn’t have a stab, and it has even more damage. I don’t thing the windup should be increased but I think the release times need to be trimmed down a lot and the damage toned down a bit. a moderatly fast sword with crazy swing manipulation shouldn’t be able to 2 shot a knight. Shouldn’t even be able to reliably two shot a vanguard imho, but it does and likely always will.

    If parrying was just made way harder than it is, we wouldn’t be forced to do the most retarded immersion breaking/balance breaking moves and could actually have relatively realistic AND skillful fights. However, the game is beyond help tbh, slasher looks really good but it won’t go far enough tbh, I want a triple A medieval first person game. So sick of indies but they seem to have the least repetitive gameplay and I’m stuck with all this till 2015/2016 then chivalry dies and star citizen + theslashering comes out and consumer is happy



  • @Huggles:

    messer is OP for the same reasons the greatsword was op except it doesn’t have a stab, and it has even more damage. I don’t thing the windup should be increased but I think the release times need to be trimmed down a lot and the damage toned down a bit. a moderatly fast sword with crazy swing manipulation shouldn’t be able to 2 shot a knight. Shouldn’t even be able to reliably two shot a vanguard imho, but it does and likely always will.

    If parrying was just made way harder than it is, we wouldn’t be forced to do the most retarded immersion breaking/balance breaking moves and could actually have relatively realistic AND skillful fights. However, the game is beyond help tbh, slasher looks really good but it won’t go far enough tbh, I want a triple A medieval first person game. So sick of indies but they seem to have the least repetitive gameplay and I’m stuck with all this till 2015/2016 then chivalry dies and star citizen + theslashering comes out and consumer is happy

    lel, thats a lot to hope for :/ but id actually rather have higher windups than lower release times. as far as nerfs go, its gonna have to be damage, release and windup, since obvi no one wants to touch length or anything. I see 2 out of those 3 as at least reasonable, but i feel like windup nerfs are the only must, since it’s supposed to be the heavy damage dealing sword. higher windups but same damage sounds better to me, but I dunno. Guess that depends on the user. if hes someone who just tries to hit trade with reverses and lookdowns than no windup changes makes that strategy almost as annoying imo. higher windups, and they actually have to put some effort in to make that hit trade. i dont mind ballerinas too much, so idc to see the release times nerfed. if anything, i guess nerf the slash release time, i like the oh’s release time being the same as ls’s, and maybe the slash should be the same as well. So, i guess if i were gonna pick 2 of those 3 nerfs i’d do slash release .6 -> .55 (same as ls) and then slash windup .525->.55 and oh windup .55->.575. i dunno, that sounds better to me than damage nerfs :/ id probably just use ls and sow if the damage got nerfed, even if that was the only nerf. just sorta rambling and thinking as i type though. would have to try shit out ofc



  • @swagfox:

    lel, thats a lot to hope for :/ but id actually rather have higher windups than lower release times. as far as nerfs go, its gonna have to be damage, release and windup, since obvi no one wants to touch length or anything. I see 2 out of those 3 as at least reasonable, but i feel like windup nerfs are the only must, since it’s supposed to be the heavy damage dealing sword. higher windups but same damage sounds better to me, but I dunno. Guess that depends on the user. if hes someone who just tries to hit trade with reverses and lookdowns than no windup changes makes that strategy almost as annoying imo. higher windups, and they actually have to put some effort in to make that hit trade. i dont mind ballerinas too much, so idc to see the release times nerfed. if anything, i guess nerf the slash release time, i like the oh’s release time being the same as ls’s, and maybe the slash should be the same as well. So, i guess if i were gonna pick 2 of those 3 nerfs i’d do slash release .6 -> .55 (same as ls) and then slash windup .525->.55 and oh windup .55->.575. i dunno, that sounds better to me than damage nerfs :/ id probably just use ls and sow if the damage got nerfed, even if that was the only nerf. just sorta rambling and thinking as i type though. would have to try shit out ofc

    the slash drags for the messer are pretty stupid imho, the overheads are somewhat tolerable I just think it’s ridiculous how the slash is looks like it’s moving away from you and you literally have to run into it to parry it. It forces poor footwork which is why intentional missing is actually a valid tactic here, which kinda sucks tbh


  • Mod

    Slash is fine, you hit half your team mates doing it anyways. Just increase the overhead windup slightly and job done in my opinion.



  • @Huggles:

    the slash drags for the messer are pretty stupid imho, the overheads are somewhat tolerable I just think it’s ridiculous how the slash is looks like it’s moving away from you and you literally have to run into it to parry it.

    In my experience the messer looks like is allready in your model then stays there for half a sec while you think “why isnt it registering a block” and then you get hit. The game is so desync then people drag….



  • @TheFunnySide:

    In my experience the messer looks like is allready in your model then stays there for half a sec while you think “why isnt it registering a block” and then you get hit. The game is so desync then people drag….

    yea, lol messer lmbs break the space time continuum tbh, it’s inside of you while going backwards while going over you onto the other side and into your neck. Some of these animatons are wonky as hell. Weapons with short windups and long releases are disasters tbh.

    unreal 3 is pretty bad tho, if this game was run on cry engine 3 with decent devs this game would be a fucking master piece. Too bad we got these guys tbh lol

    in short, make release times lower and upper the windup by .5

    damage is fine I guess, although swords really shouldn’t be able to two shot knights…



  • @Xylvion:

    They could change the OH damage from 90->95 and the damage type from chop to cut and the OH would 1hit MAAs to the head while not being able to 2hit knights. Increase OH windup to 0.6 while keeping slash windup at 0.525. Keep slash at 90 damage as it’s the easiest attack to land, or slash could even be dropped to 85 damage and still 1hit archers, 2hit Vanguards to the torso, but not torso+feet. (If the OH changes were made that is).
    The weapon would still be viable but it would make the other swords more attractive.

    This is the best option.


  • Global Moderator

    Nah I think its a bit of an overnerf. Really its overhead windup is the only problem. Fundamentally changing the weapon by altering everything but that stab which isn’t used much anyway isn’t a good idea. That’s how the whole game got screwed to start with.

    its a big slow sword. Don’t make it 3 shot things by changing the damage which isn’t a problem.



  • I think the messer should one shot archers with an LMB to the head but not to MaAs. MaAs should be nerfed. Overhead wind up should be longer, and LMB too. Long sword should get buffs. Messer stab should be weaker so it can’t two shot vanguards with overhead stab torso combo like the old swords. Double overhead torso should two shot vanguards, and knights if both hit the head. I think it’s okay that overhead into slash two shots vanguards as long as two overheads with Longsword two shots vanguards. That way SoW has two stabs, messer has overhead slash and Longsword has double overhead.



  • ^messer only needs 80 slash damage to 1hit archers to the head (because the damage type is cut). But then it would deal 48 damage to vangaurds torso, which is fine with me but some people would probablt whine about that, that’s why I suggested 85 instead.
    I also think it’s silly that messer who excels in both slash and overhead compared to the other swords only got 1 less damage on stab than LS. Which only make the difference that a quick kick is required instead of a heavy kick if you hit a vanguard twice with stabs in the toro.
    If you take a look at the old messer the difference is that the slash dealt 85 damage and that the slash windup was 0.5 instead of 0.525. The overhead have always been able to two shot knights and always as fast.


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