POLL: Is using MAA dodge to bypass flinch and recovery an Exploit?



  • Simple and to the point yes or no, maybe say why below. I think most of us want to see it gone, just want to get some actual numbers

    Edit, just found a similar one in COMP board but i feel its a really important discussion topic for balance



  • It is just a bug that needs to be fix, if people use it whatever - MAA is one hit and maybe one feint kill anyway.



  • I’ve ways considered MaA to be a joke class compared to Knight or VG, the only reason due to dodge. Bypassing flinch is irrelevant: just being able to TELEPORT away from swings has ALWAYS made MaA OP and anti-fun, regardless of details. Fuck parry, fuck footwork, just hit the one-button win button. Further discussion of instant ports is irrelevant.



  • @Oy:

    I’ve ways considered MaA to be a joke class compared to Knight or VG, the only reason due to dodge. Bypassing flinch is irrelevant: just being able to TELEPORT away from swings has ALWAYS made MaA OP and anti-fun, regardless of details. Fuck parry, fuck footwork, just hit the one-button win button. Further discussion of instant ports is irrelevant.

    MaAs are OP even without dodge thanks to no more forward chase and their overbuffed foot speed.



  • DOoF - ok
    DAOoF - not ok



  • remove dodge altogether tbh, stupid mechanic altogether alongside charge attack. Good players shouldn’t even need it the foot speed and fire pots are enough reasons to use maa



  • Of course it is an exploit.

    The only reason people might think that it isn’t is because TB have been so quiet about it. Sure they tried to “fix” it once, but that wasn’t even a fix it was a lazy work around.

    The real question for TB is, how hard can it be to fix?


  • Mod

    There are multiple weapons that 1hko you why do you need to nerf the class more? Dodge already costs 20% stamina ffs. Make dodge 50%.



  • @Sir:

    There are multiple weapons that 1hko you why do you need to nerf the class more? Dodge already costs 20% stamina ffs. Make dodge 50%.

    dodge in general is dumb, get out of jail free card every time and it’s pretty easy stam management. Dodge out of flinch is pure exploit. Bypassing a flinch state is pure broken. No class should be able to do that



  • These votes are ridiculous, how is bypassing flinch in any way not an exploit? if you have dodge out of flinch you will always have dodge attack out of flinch. You can’t separate them because removing the flinch phase opens up opportunities you should have never had open in the first place. No punishing mistakes now? Maa is the only class that gets to fuck up and not be punished for it?

    Maa was always intended to be high risk high and high efficiency. Being quick in and out and you need an incredible amount of skill to do so. Now you get all the benefits of being an extremely quick and agile class, with none of the risk attached to it.



  • The reasoning for voting no here is simple. Knowing the innate capabilities of the gifted staff here at our beloved TB studios, who knows what will happen if they attempt to fix this so called “bug.” They could mistakenly make vanguards invincible. Who knows? We sure don’t.



  • @DokB:

    The real question for TB is, how hard can it be to fix?

    Oh man that’s my favorite game.



  • Poor design? Maybe. Exploit/cheat? Nope, been a part of the game forever

    You can’t claim to not like a way something is designed and claim it to be an exploit/cheat. You will get a lot of Yes votes here because people don’t like the way it is designed (or MAAs in general), but game design doesn’t constitute exploit/cheat.



  • so many maa tears, you dont even need dodge to fuck people up in melee, you just have to lrn2parry



  • @DokB:

    The real question for TB is, how hard can it be to fix?

    Read that in Jeremy Clarksons voice, so I already know how it is going to turn out.

    It isn’t the dodging out of flinch to bypass recovery that is the exploit. It is using that and then attacking instantaneously afterwards that gives the useless maa who made a critical error essentially a delayed hit trade, that also gives them the ability to combo and the offensive initiative. If at the worst, by some miracle, someone parries it (almost always as ftp), then the maa balances out the stamina advantage too.
    Any maa who relies on this, is just a terrible player that is turning poor judgement and poor footwork into an advantage and then claiming to have “real skill”.

    I’m all for dodge out of flinch to give maa a chance to recover from a mistake because they don’t have the health to do it (although general movement speed is good enough imo), but they should not be allowed to attack directly after dodging to gain the upper-hand.



  • @zombojoe:

    so many maa tears, you dont even need dodge to fuck people up in melee, you just have to lrn2parry

    This too, I don’t usually bother with dodge when I play maa (unless against maa who use this “mechanic”) the movement speed maa has is enough to dance around enemy swings, even in 1vN situations.
    Also, parrying a van attack while jumping gives you incredible knock-back that can get you out of sticky situations pretty damn easily too.

    Final note: Crouch still works really well. People should use it more often.



  • It takes four swings to kill a knight, three to kill a vanguard, and only one to kill a Man at Arms. We’re mobile for a reason and we don’t use ranged attacks save for four throwing knives or a single firebomb. The fact we can die in a single hit seems to be enough of a handicap that nothing needs to be changed, a skilled MAA is always vulnerable and often a knight can tear apart a MAA without too much issue. I don’t see too many MAA’s attack right after dodging from a recovery, and I know I tend to fall back for stamina recovery. If they can attack right after a strike, then they’re wide open for retaliation as surely they’re putting a lot on the line and if the gambit fails then they will likely die. I’m not going to contribute a huge amount to this discussion, although I see little issue in this topic. I vote for Status Quo.



  • Pretty much.

    I find I only need to use dodge against other MaA who try to pull some jewy dodge bullshit on me. You pretty much always need to dodge if you see them dodge after being hit because of the fucking exploit. Only other time dodge is useful is when you dodge in between two or more people and everyone starts hitting each other or pulling off The Great Escape.

    Non-MaA (mostly knight mains) have been crying here in their little echo chamber hugbox forum
    long enough about dodge removal, but I will admit however, I would be sad to see dodge go.

    If you left MaA how he is at the moment, removed dodge
    and went forward with this Broadsword nerf and perhaps make some of his other primaries more appealing, then I think MaA would still be fun/balanced to play. It would certainly draw the line on separating good MaA and bad MaA.



  • @Mystikkal:

    Poor design? Maybe. Exploit/cheat? Nope, been a part of the game forever

    You can’t claim to not like a way something is designed and claim it to be an exploit/cheat. You will get a lot of Yes votes here because people don’t like the way it is designed (or MAAs in general), but game design doesn’t constitute exploit/cheat.

    big kek m8, the dodge out of flinch +attack exploit was only introduced around August/September last year.

    Speaking in terms of TB bugs and their longevity in game, that is still quite a short amount of time.



  • This is tough to answer. I hate calling game mechanics “exploits”. Mystikkal has a point; it’s in the game and it’s been in it forever, so maybe Torn banner meant to do it? On the other hand the whole mechanic is a bit too easy to land a hit. It needs to be addressed as what it is. I honestly thinks it’s a bit silly, I try to avoid doing it. I play Maa, (Poorly) but I know I try not to use this mechanic because of the way the community sees it, but as an maa i don’t want to be hit in the first place much less try to get hit to land one, doesn’t seem worth it to me. I honestly feel like it shouldn’t be in the game.

    So No, I don’t think it’s an exploit, but it is something I hope torn banner addresses and fixes.

    That’s my opinion :p