First hit Flinch



  • One of the main reasons chivalry is so widely criticized atm is the inconsistency of core game mechanics the main culprit being flinching. Although flinch in release was incredibly aggrevating to a majority of players, it did seek to alleviate much of the caveman meta of hit trading with a bigger weapon.

    So, it is my main contention that a first hit flinch system would greatly benefit this game as a whole. This would lead to real playstlye development in which each individual player would have to figure out in which environment his optimal weapon loadout performs best. How aggressive this paticular player should be, how much he should consider range, how often he should attempt to gain iniative, etc. As opposed to pretty much every class playing tHe exact same way striving to be the first to hit trade and tank up hits.

    If it could work, and tbs could do this correctly, would you be in favor of it?



  • idk maul hit trades can be pretty fun



  • The only real argument against first hit flinch is dodge.



  • As if this would ever be implemented after months of the community begging for FiR removal.
    Nevertheless, I voted yes. Would be fun to try out, at least.

    If it would end up too wonky, you could always try that idea I had a few months ago.



  • @B4RK:

    If it would end up too wonky, you could always try that idea I had a few months ago.

    which is? /10chars



  • First hit flinch, aka race to reverse.
    Seriously, It’d suck hard. With faster weapon you could react to enemy attack with your attack and win. It would just put faster weapon in favor any time. The reason you feint to parry is to avoid hit trading, with this everyone would just take something as bullshit as GS right now and spam even harder.
    Weapons colliding on overhead vs overhead and doing no damage to either player would make sense, but this is just some spamguard cancerous shit.



  • @Bladek:

    First hit flinch, aka race to reverse.
    Seriously, I’d suck hard. With faster weapon you could react to enemy attack with your attack and win. It would just put faster weapon in favor any time. The reason you feint to parry is to avoid hit trading, with this everyone would just take something as bullshit as GS right now and spam even harder.
    Weapons colliding on overhead vs overhead and doing no damage to either player would make sense, but this is just some spamguard cancerous shit.

    lol, which is why you would play to your weapons strengths and weaknesses and not try to push it beyond something you know is normally a bad idea but because of bullshit trading wouldn’t happen. Faster weapons are normally shorter, use your range to your advantage and don’t let people in that close. If you have a shorter faster weapon, you should be trying to do the opposite. You would play it smart and only do something you know you could achieve instead of hoping luck solves the problem by hit trading whatever the fuck you need to kill.

    Here’s the real reason you don’t like this change

    @Bladek:

    Seriously, I’d suck hard.



  • Knives would be better than every 2h in game then, they will always be a first hit in a gamble world.



  • @Xylvion:

    Knives would be better than every 2h in game then, they will always be a first hit in a gamble world.

    butttt knives have no range and you have to be horrible to allow someone to facehug you that easily?

    Isn’t it logical that one handers should always be attempting to face hug or somewhere near their optimal range is while long 2 handers will always try to keep them out of that range? And with first hit flinch it’s easier to stay in your optimal range if you are a better player and have better footwork.



  • You do realize that many VG weapons are both faster and have more range than knight’s? Proper footwork would never allow knight to land a hit on VG with first hit flinch. Right now VGs avoid hittrading with knights for obvious reason, with first hit flinch it would be a knight **** fest. But I do understand that you must be a GS VG, whose skillless tactic of lookdown spam will not be profitable with the upcoming patch, so you need another feature to cover your lack of skill with.



  • @CRUSHED:

    The only real argument against first hit flinch is dodge.

    can u imagine dealing with hws maa



  • @Bladek:

    You do realize that many VG weapons are both faster and have more range than knight’s? Proper footwork would never allow knight to land a hit on VG with first hit flinch. Right now VGs avoid hittrading with knights for obvious reason, with first hit flinch it would be a knight **** fest. But I do understand that you must be a GS VG, whose skillless tactic of lookdown spam will not be profitable with the upcoming patch, so you need another feature to cover your lack of skill with.

    knight weapons are more damaging and many of which are pretty much the same speed if not faster than most vanguard weapons. The fastest weapons the vanguard has in its arsonal would be the claymore,the fork, and the billhook with the rest being moderate to slow speeds with good reach. Knight has weapons like the sow, messer, poleaxe, etc. Which can definitly keep up with vanguards and pose much stronger threat to them then any vanguard weapons could hope to do with knight. The only argument, like crushed mentioned is maa dodge adding a ton of unpredictability as to how this change would match up with them.



  • as far knights v vanguard goes knights usually win because it comes down to HTK

    the difference in range and movement speed between them is not extreme enough to make a difference


  • Mod

    First hit flinch would shift the meta to fast weapon gambling, no thanks. Any semi-slow weapon wouldn’t be able to combo without being forced to CFtP, people would attack as much as they can in hopes that they hit you first and get the flinch off.



  • @Kim:

    First hit flinch would shift the meta to fast weapon gambling, no thanks. Any semi-slow weapon wouldn’t be able to combo without being forced to CFtP, people would attack as much as they can in hopes that they hit you first and get the flinch off.

    More range + proper footwork should allow the majority of weapons to make first contact should they hit first, the majority of weapons in this game aren’t fast enough to to swing while someone else is already halfway done with their attacks and still get their hit off first, I understand why a mauler would oppose this, someone who pretty much wins by hit trading and winning those hit trades with one shot, but simply put stronger slower weapons shouldn’t be able to gain initiative all the time. It’s called tactical trade offs, something that was lost long ago when hit trade spam became the new meta for skilless chivalry.

    Combine first hit flinch with farr less stamina punishment for parrying, further reduce the bubble, make the parry box smaller, and we have a better game all in all. I really don’t know many arguments against this except for dodge, I really don’t.

    Regardless, slasher will be amazing because of such a mechanic, and this will also reward players for reading feints and attacking after they see one.


  • Mod

    @Huggles:

    More range + proper footwork should allow the majority of weapons to make first contact should they hit first, the majority of weapons in this game aren’t fast enough to to swing while someone else is already halfway done with their attacks and still get their hit off first, I understand why a mauler would oppose this, someone who pretty much wins by hit trading and winning those hit trades with one shot, but simply put stronger slower weapons shouldn’t be able to gain initiative all the time. It’s called tactical trade offs, something that was lost long ago when hit trade spam became the new meta for skilless chivalry.

    Combine first hit flinch with farr less stamina punishment for parrying, further reduce the bubble, make the parry box smaller, and we have a better game all in all. I really don’t know many arguments against this except for dodge, I really don’t.

    Regardless, slasher will be amazing because of such a mechanic, and this will also reward players for reading feints and attacking after they see one.

    First hit flinch reduces the amount of viable weapons then, since speed + range would win every time. Fork gamble meta incoming. I’d love for someone to make a mod so we can try it out though, would be interesting to see how it plays out instead of theorycrafting on here.



  • @Kim:

    First hit flinch reduces the amount of viable weapons then, since speed + range would win every time. Fork gamble meta incoming. I’d love for someone to make a mod so we can try it out though, would be interesting to see how it plays out instead of theorycrafting on here.

    how is the current meta of hit trading not equally as gamblish if not more?


  • Mod

    @Huggles:

    how is the current meta of hit trading not equally as gamblish if not more?

    Because the gambling player usually gets punished. Try to gamble against a maul for example and you risk trading it and losing a bunch of health, with first hit flinch it would remove that risk and there’d be no incentive not to just lotto attack since you’ll probably flinch them.



  • @Kim:

    Because the gambling player usually gets punished. Try to gamble against a maul for example and you risk trading it and losing a bunch of health, with first hit flinch it would remove that risk and there’d be no incentive not to just lotto attack since you’ll probably flinch them.

    what if the maul is the one that’s gambling though, top keks. same with messer, sow, polehammer, poleaxe, etc.

    reversals can force some pretty good hit trades you otherwise not might have been able to do. Hence hit trade gamble meta. flinch in release at least controlled this to an extent to prevent people from running across the map to hit trade you which effectively destroyed many of the advantages that long weapons really had.

    I’d say at the very least, flinch in release is brought back to ensure that anyone sprinting should be able to be flinched. And maa get the rebalancing it’s already getting instead of changing game mechanics because one class seems to oppose all the fundamental principles of the game.

    atm, gambling is rewarded heavily lol

    there’s no reason not to gamble unless you are a maa or an archer, or are using a weak weapon with vanguard.

    slower weapons should accept the real trade offs they should have, and faster weapons should accept the fact that they’re going to have a much higher htk.

    make parry much less of a punishment to use, and the game will be fairly balanced and you will actually have to think about when to swing.


  • Mod

    @Huggles:

    what if the maul is the one that’s gambling though, top keks. same with messer, sow, polehammer, poleaxe, etc.

    reversals can force some pretty good hit trades you otherwise not might have been able to do. Hence hit trade gamble meta. flinch in release at least controlled this to an extent to prevent people from running across the map to hit trade you which effectively destroyed many of the advantages that long weapons really had.

    I’d say at the very least, flinch in release is brought back to ensure that anyone sprinting should be able to be flinched. And maa get the rebalancing it’s already getting instead of changing game mechanics because one class seems to oppose all the fundamental principles of the game.

    Don’t be too aggressive against a maul and you won’t trade as much. This is where lower stamina parry drain would come into play since right now it’s too easy to stam someone out if they go defensive. Reverses are easy to parry and still have the .7 windup, attacking without initiative with the maul usually gets you flinched unless the person you’re fighting doesn’t punish you.

    Flinch in release was awful for every weapon and buffed vanguards because of their knockback since it forces you to sprint, please don’t bring that back. Find another way to stop the gambletrades that doesn’t involve reducing the amount of viable weapons. Again, I’d like to see how first hit flinch plays before making a final decision.