Thoughts on the removal of flinch In release



  • So now that we’ve played without flinch in release for a little while now how do you guys feel about it? Do you think the game is better without it or should TB add it back in?

    Personally I was all for it being removed but I think I’m gonna have to eat my words on this one. After seeing the effects in game I find heavy weapons especially the maul to get a pretty significant buff from removing FIR. I feel like flinch felt a lot better before the patch that removed it and although this may not be the popular opinion I’d like to see the removal of FIR reverted. Have at it :p



  • Also add a bigger flinch window to riposte on some weapons, eg. maul



  • Flinch in release made me appreciate the reach of my weapons more, because players would have to sprint forward into my attack to try and go for hit trades, causing them to be flinched in their release when my weapon inevitably hit first. Of course good players knew to stop sprinting at the last second to prevent this, but not always. I think it prevented some overly aggressive playstyles, but overall is not that dramatic. I did like that flinch in release would stop ripostes, which are currently unstoppable.



  • I’m so happy flinch in release is gone and ripostes should never be flinchable. Unflinchable ripostes aren’t the issue here, the issue is that the best weapons right now are messer and maul because they over nerfed longsword and SoW and overbuffed the messer and maul. Maul should be slower and never oneshot a knight and the messer just needs worse HTK, or have competitive options with longsword and SoW. Vanguard spacing, the threat MaAs bring, and the necessity of having to fight 1vs2+ constantly are what make messer and maul feel so required.

    The problem isn’t lack of flinch in release. There are bigger, deeper problems that’s forcing the game mechanics to be played like this. Ripostes should never be flinchable, and neither should anything in release.



  • first hit flinch is the best to prevent lotto knight merchant gameplay

    thats why dueling in slasher with 200 ping is more fun than any duel ive had in chivalry in recent memory



  • first hit flinch would be interesting to test for sure.

    and you’d think ripostes shouldn’t flinch, until maul 1 shot bockswings rule the meta.



  • @50ShadesofClay:

    first hit flinch would be interesting to test for sure.

    and you’d think ripostes shouldn’t flinch, until maul 1 shot bockswings rule the meta.

    Gotta agree here.

    I was all for unflinchable ripostes and hell, partially I still am.
    But it is precisely those unflinchable maul backswing ripostes that get me raging every single time.

    Although I don’t want to see Maul nerfed in any way but stamina-related, nor do I want ripostes to be flinchable because it screws over many other weapons.
    General decrease in parry stamina usage would be a good solution here to at least prevent the stamina drain meta concerning maul.

    Back on topic; flinch in release was no less than retarded imo. Keep it out.



  • Every change over the last year or more has seemed to conspire to make the game a giant spam fest.

    There used to be a nice rhythm to it. An initiative to be won or lost. Score a hit and you’re in a pretty good position to go for a follow up, get hit and you better think about defence. I enjoyed that time, you stood a fair chance against multiple opponents by being smart about your attacks and positioning.

    Now it just seems attack is always the most viable option, and when that happens any back and forth strategy just goes out the window.



  • @McLumberjack:

    Every change over the last year or more has seemed to conspire to make the game a giant spam fest.

    There used to be a nice rhythm to it. An initiative to be won or lost. Score a hit and you’re in a pretty good position to go for a follow up, get hit and you better think about defence. I enjoyed that time, you stood a fair chance against multiple opponents by being smart about your attacks and positioning.

    Now it just seems attack is always the most viable option, and when that happens any back and forth strategy just goes out the window.

    People care more about being spammy and landing hits than playing smart, it’s the game’s fault that they’re successful with it.



  • I think everyone agrees FiR is better as a concept, but we need different weapon timings for it to be less retarded than no FiR. It’ll work great in slasher I think because afaik the fastest weapon is a broadsword and slowest ones are…well I’m not sure, but not a maul. Theres no dagger vs maul difference in windups I think.



  • FIR was a godly mechanic that kept the bullshit at bay. People couldnt run arround while jerking off with their lmb.
    There were a lot less situations there a hit trade occured. The Rule of "if you cant hit your opponent first then dont attack"
    was still worth something. All the other aspect of flinch were also in sync at that time, now projectiles dont flinch but show flinch animation, in a fist fight a lot off people dont get flinched at all, unblockable ripostes are everywhere….



  • I told you this would happen.



  • @TheFunnySide:

    unblockable ripostes are everywhere….

    You can still block, parry, sidestep, duck etc. ripostes. You just can’t attack into it and expect that you will 100% flinch him.



  • Yeah you guys are making a big deal out of nothing, hello I thought you people were against caveman hit trade meta, you KNOW the riposte is unflinchable, have you ever heard of a parry? if you cant parry a maul riposte you should get off this forum and go play the game. oh youre in a 2v1 and maul man got an easy parry off your partner and switches to you, heres an idea, parry and yell at your partner for giving easy parries, its so simple to feint or drag in a 2v1 and forcing the lone wolf to parry compared to giving him easy parries and hit trading like a fucking caveman. srsly git gud stop complaining and learn to parry.

    Edit: Flinch in release was utter horseshit and made the game so hard to 1vN on top of the yellow bar war.



  • That patch made combat into meaningless hit trades. Look at all the knights on the servers now simply because of the hit trade factor. Not much skill involved in current game, just a shit ton of spam.



  • I wouldn’t mind first hit flinch being a mechanic as long as onehanders and fast twohanders like the fork/claymore couldn’t benefit from it.



  • @Hammertime:

    That patch made combat into meaningless hit trades. Look at all the knights on the servers now simply because of the hit trade factor. Not much skill involved in current game, just a shit ton of spam.

    Do you know how easy it is to kill knights as any class with nearly any weapon? Keep on playing knight and trying to hit trade me with maul. I’ll punish you really hard for it.

    I really don’t get why people have such a hard time parrying ripostes. Also the game is much less spammy now because you used to combo every attack before June 2013 since there was literally no benefit to not comboing because of how much stamina you had, how good CftP was and the weapon choices. I liked it way better back then, actually.



  • Huh? Why are people talking about flinchable ripostes like it’s something that really matters? Why are you acting like ripostes were 100% flinchable before FiR was fixed? Maybe I took some crazy pills, but I have the impression some of you are overstating the effectiveness of FiR due to nostalgia.

    Before FiR got fixed, ripostes could only be flinched if the guy was sprinting or received >=80 dmg. Same thing for hit trading. Or so it was said. I mean, I believed that rule, because I saw the if clause and the code. I don’t recall getting flinched ever if I traded while stationary, so I thought it was true.

    What you don’t see is that with or without FiR, the mechanic itself was pretty fucking ineffective to prevent the SP®IN(t)2WIN tactics and ROHs. The real problem is that attacks do FULL DAMAGE ONE MILLISECOND after their flinchable phase is over and some animations can be abused to display very little of the other guy’s position. And with all the shitty lags and desyncs, judging an enemy’s attack state is still kinda hard and/or unreliable.

    Trying to fix an internal bleeding with a simple bandaid will not really affect the current meta. Why so much hope in a crappy mechanic? I don’t recall 60ms of ping as unplayable as it is these days. That’s the real problem imho and not some insignificant mechanic that was bullshit to begin with.

    At any rate, maybe, FiR wasn’t bullshit. Alright. We should still agree that there’s something very wrong with the preferred spamming playstyle of the current age and that is what needs fixing.



  • @Alphonse:

    FiR…

    I haven’t felt the need to adjust my playstyle much after FiR was removed, but I do miss the ability to flinch a sprinting Maul overhead that was meant to force me to block or to hit trade with.



  • @Fang:

    I haven’t felt the need to adjust my playstyle much after FiR was removed, but I do miss the ability to flinch a sprinting Maul overhead that was meant to force me to block or to hit trade with.

    Pretty much, only thing it changed was shield play for me, for the exact same reason you stated haha.


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