Shield Viability Video for a Developer



  • Hi,

    I am making this thread hoping that one of your patches will address the shield stamina drain vs cretin weapons. I Understand the maul by design is probably meant to be a shield killer, however, as it stands now, it wins shield by default - It simply is a case of rock-paper-scissors, instead of each setup/weapon being viable in its own right. Weapons that can beat out others by design alone is frustrating and boring…

    I attacked a link to a small you tube video of shield vs the maul to give an idea of how hopeless it is using a shield vs maul and grand mace. The Maul user dusty is not even using ftp often as other do - if he had been I would dead even quicker. The maul in combination with good footwork - ftp and fast kicks (stam drain) is a hopeless and frustrating fight for a shield user.

    Before some genius says “why feint if ur complaining of low stamina” well I say good luck trying to hit a high rank player as shield without feints.

    I’m gonna keep posting about this issue until I get frustrated and quit or u change it.

    **

    Video Link**

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UhbCwed6VA&feature=youtu.be



  • You could try de-equipping your shield.



  • @dudeface:

    You could try de-equipping your shield.

    like I said above - Each setup weapon should be viable in its own right.



  • There’s a reason you can switch weapons and equip/dequip shields.



  • @dudeface:

    There’s a reason you can switch weapons and equip/dequip shields.

    No weapon should just beat out another by design .That boring and needs to be changed. U don’t agree, thats fine.



  • @Najo:

    No weapon should just beat out another by design .That boring and needs to be changed. U don’t agree, thats fine.

    Why not? Shield setups are already incredibly strong in 1v1 against any other weapon, and you know that. I think that it’s fair that there’s a counter to shields.



  • @Albert!:

    Why not? Shield setups are already incredibly strong in 1v1 against any other weapon, and you know that. I think that it’s fair that there’s a counter to shields.

    Shield is not overpowered 1v1. It may appear overpowered to players that are not used to facing it (majority of low tier guys) but those who know how to play can beat shield rather effortlessly. A simple combination of a few mechanics beats shield with ease due to its crippling low stamina pool. So no I don’t accept its overpowered. I accept only that it is a big shock to those who don’t know what to do against it.



  • Knights using shields are way too weak. If you get caught by 2 complete noobs, they can just spam overheads and lock you in place until you run out of stamina. If one of them has half a brain, he can kick you and you won’t even last that long.
    Everytime I hear someone say that “shields are good against archers” I puke a little. Archers can eat you alive, considering that shield up and shield down times are enough for multiple dagger hits. And shields don’t even offer that much protection against archers. A good archer will hit regardless of shields, or simply aim for your teammate (making it useless in the big picture).
    MaA can use shields effectively because all they have to do is use their win button whenever they feel the slightest threat, at the cost of stamina that will regen by the time his oponent catches up.

    tl;dr: Buff knight shields.



  • Hint: press 3 when facing a maul.

    I don’t get why this is so hard for you to understand.



  • Norse sword without a shield will drain as much stamina from a maul overhead as towershield does. I do agree it’s a bit silly, but shields got too many advantages atm and would need a couple of nerfs before it gets buffed.
    For example half stamina drain of the current for shields, but also half damage dealt while using shields, it would make them more defensive.



  • I agree that rock paper scissors is bad game design for competitive games, especially in ones where it’s more focused on reaction than strategy, forethought and planning.

    I wanted the maul to have the largest stamina drain but I didn’t want the maul to be this fast or 1 shot knights. I think overall all stamina usage needs to be lowered so we’re not running out as quickly. The maul should drain more stamina than other weapons against shields (and against other weapons), but not be “anti-shield” and no where near to the point as it is right now.


  • Global Moderator

    Kicks are a mauls worst enemy.

    And sabres. Like a short sword and dagger combined.



  • The Maul is just bad design, there is so much shit that was done to make the maul good and its affecting the game negativly.
    Like the extremly long stun times and the uninteruptable ripostes



  • @Najo:

    Hi,

    I am making this thread hoping that one of your patches will address the shield stamina drain vs cretin weapons. I Understand the maul by design is probably meant to be a shield killer, however, as it stands now, it wins shield by default - It simply is a case of rock-paper-scissors, instead of each setup/weapon being viable in its own right. Weapons that can beat out others by design alone is frustrating and boring…

    I attacked a link to a small you tube video of shield vs the maul to give an idea of how hopeless it is using a shield vs maul and grand mace. The Maul user dusty is not even using ftp often as other do - if he had been I would dead even quicker. The maul in combination with good footwork - ftp and fast kicks (stam drain) is a hopeless and frustrating fight for a shield user.

    Before some genius says “why feint if ur complaining of low stamina” well I say good luck trying to hit a high rank player as shield without feints.

    I’m gonna keep posting about this issue until I get frustrated and quit or u change it.

    **

    Video Link**

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UhbCwed6VA&feature=youtu.be

    Watching the video I can tell you right now that you did not use your sword to it’s fullest potential damage wise. You also had issues reading your opponent and that maul over head drop damage is incredibly high.

    Mechanic wise this clip shows that everything is working as intended.



  • Well, I know a man who goes shielded knight and rekts shit in 1v1, and thats because he “block feint” all the time. You should try that more often man, you will be amazed by how many people fall for this shit and you keep your stamina intact!

    Shield feints are OP imo, has no drawback. At worse your opponent will not fall for it, but fuck that, you haven’t expent 1 single stamina unit so who cares. Try to use this shit more often OP, post results prease.

    Just a question, does anyone think that Maul is better then it should be, due its one-shot capabilities?


  • Global Moderator

    @Vanguard:

    Well, I know a man who goes shielded knight and rekts shit in 1v1, and thats because he “block feint” all the time. You should try that more often man, you will be amazed by how many people fall for this shit and you keep your stamina intact!

    Shield feints are OP imo, has no drawback. At worse your opponent will not fall for it, but fuck that, you haven’t expent 1 single stamina unit so who cares. Try to use this shit more often OP, post results prease.

    Just a question, does anyone think that Maul is better then it should be, due its one-shot capabilities?

    No. I mean its what 0.7 seconds or something for the overhead windup? The one shot on knights is really only done when you get up behind them.



  • Maul is in a tough place because there is no weapon inertia ingame. The ability to manipulate a maul as if it is a sword is completely overpowered from a mechanical standpoint.



  • I agree that maul is ridiculous against shields, and the removal of FiR hurt them more than people realise. With the current raise, drop and attack lockout times, a lot of weapons can just force trades, and now that you can’t flinch them out of release, spacing yourself properly to prevent this is pretty much useless. It’s why I dropped shield.

    Not saying I want FiR back, but the fact that removing it pretty much killed the only viable playstyle for bastard sword + shield really highlighted how weak the setup actually is.



  • I agree and disagree with Najo on this topic.
    Yes Maul is an absolute shield killer, no denying it.
    But saying shield is underpowered just because maul ****s it is like saying Maul is underpowered cause MaA + fists **** it.



  • @Shard:

    I agree and disagree with Najo on this topic.
    Yes Maul is an absolute shield killer, no denying it.
    But saying shield is underpowered just because maul ****s it is like saying Maul is underpowered cause MaA + fists **** it.

    It’s not a popular opinion that shield needs a buff or better said a bigger stamina pool, but yeah I believe they do. I barely beat high ranking 2h longsword. If a player uses only 1 of the following tactics/mechanics they are going to win vs shield by design. Which a game like chiv, even if its a bit more casual friendly shouldn’t be rock paper scissors. That is lazy design.

    1:ftp(this by far is the worst)
    2:Fast kick cycling.
    3:Good footwork.
    4:Feint reading (not complaining about this but I am adding it to point out if one feint is read then u are on dangerously low stamina)

    With Above mechanics the regular 2h longsword is more than a easy fight for a 2h user. Its very frustrating vs a player using all those above mechanics in with a maul or dubaxe.Don’t get me wrong here There is only a handful of guys that can do all the above mechanics together but thats the point -u don’t have to do all of them together u only need one to beat shield and thats boring.

    Lets not bother pretending it has something to do with a higher skill lvl - It has everything to do with rubbish game design.


Log in to reply
 

Looks like your connection to Torn Banner Forums was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.