Shield Viability Video for a Developer



  • @dudeface:

    You do realize the video is Chivalry: Medieval Warfare and not Deadliest Warrior right? There’s no sweet-spot for the tracers.

    I was under the impression that they functioned the same. Perhaps during testing my numbers were thrown off due to hitbox locations.



  • @lemonater47:

    Well they work more than they don’t but yeah the failure rate is still too high to rely on kicks.

    Every little bit of stamina is essential in shield play, especially against heavy weapons so kicks are generally a bad idea. Feints, FtP, CFtP, jumps, kicks and even blocking itself should be kept to an absolute minimum, otherwise you will lose. Even body feints have fuck all value for shields, as your effective window of opportunity to attack is tiny due to the lack of riposte. Unless you throw something out immediately or space yourself preemptively you’re at risk of being traded.

    This is for bastard swords though, doesn’t really apply to norse/hws lotto knights.



  • @LTTLWLF:

    Every little bit of stamina is essential in shield play, especially against heavy weapons so kicks are generally a bad idea. Feints, FtP, CFtP, jumps, kicks and even blocking itself should be kept to an absolute minimum, otherwise you will lose. Even body feints have fuck all value for shields, as your effective window of opportunity to attack is tiny due to the lack of riposte. Unless you throw something out immediately or space yourself preemptively you’re at risk of being traded.

    This is for bastard swords though, doesn’t really apply to norse/hws lotto knights.

    Jumps use less stamina than feinting and have a similar effectiveness as feints. You also have a way higher chance of stabbing them in the face dealing extra damage.

    Fast kicks also use less stamina than feint to parry. They flinch in release. A little risky but when it pays off (which it usually does) you are better off than you would be if you had to feint to parry. You can’t riposte with a shield so there’s no point in using FtP at all really. So don’t put yourself into a position where you have to use it.

    But apparently using these over feints and FtP is somehow a really really bad idea. Strange because they actually work.



  • @lemonater47:

    Jumps use less stamina than feinting and have a similar effectiveness as feints. You also have a way higher chance of stabbing them in the face dealing extra damage.

    Fast kicks also use less stamina than feint to parry. They flinch in release. A little risky but when it pays off (which it usually does) you are better off than you would be if you had to feint to parry. You can’t riposte with a shield so there’s no point in using FtP at all really. So don’t put yourself into a position where you have to use it.

    But apparently using these over feints and FtP is somehow a really really bad idea. Strange because they actually work.

    Yep, because I want to risk eating a maul OH by attempting to flinch them in release. SMRT.

    Jump stabs and body feints don’t work against good players, and kicks aren’t reliable enough to be used liberally. Besides you generally don’t want to be close enough to kick to begin with because you don’t have riposte. You need room to move and read.

    And as I already said, feints and FtP should be avoided where they can, but drags will only get you so far against better players. This is the state of the game.

    Also, the only reason Tim gets away with it is because he has the advantage mentally so he can afford to play aggressively. Throw him up against anyone that refuses to be intimidated and it changes immediately.



  • @LTTLWLF:

    Yep, because I want to risk eating a maul OH by attempting to flinch them in release. SMRT.

    Jump stabs and body feints don’t work against good players, and kicks aren’t reliable enough to be used liberally. Besides you generally don’t want to be close enough to kick to begin with because you don’t have riposte. You need room to move and read.

    And as I already said, feints and FtP should be avoided where they can, but drags will only get you so far against better players. This is the state of the game.

    Also, the only reason Tim gets away with it is because he has the advantage mentally so he can afford to play aggressively. Throw him up against anyone that refuses to be intimidated and it changes immediately.

    When I dress up like tim I get the shit kicked outta me. You get gangbanged.

    Really though with feints and feint to parry you are gonna get stamina stunned. Because you use half your stamina in 2 seconds. You don’t go through your stamina nearly as fast being a bit more passive and using those tactics. The guy in the video was being way too aggressive and being punished for it.

    Of course you could always use Yarnu tactics.



  • Or you get the shield, facehug someone and just press rmb quickly. You don’t expend stamina and the risk of being hittraded seems to be really low, unless you use fast as shit weapons like shortsword against the shield knight. I must concentrate like fuck and try real hard to beat who uses this trick. I mean, if the man knows what he is doing with all these feints, know how to block properly and with a decent weapon, shields get seriously hard to fight against imo. Idk how far shield rmb feints can help in colective fights thou, maybe it is just as efficient but you must not get into melee orgy and stick with 1v1 situations



  • @Vanguard:

    Or you get the shield, facehug someone and just press rmb quickly. You don’t expend stamina and the risk of being hittraded seems to be really low, unless you use fast as shit weapons like shortsword against the shield knight. I must concentrate like fuck and try real hard to beat who uses this trick. I mean, if the man knows what he is doing with all these feints, know how to block properly and with a decent weapon, shields get seriously hard to fight against imo. Idk how far shield rmb feints can help in colective fights thou, maybe it is just as efficient but you must not get into melee orgy and stick with 1v1 situations

    Yeah I use shield feints quite a bit against people I know I have the upper hand against, combining it with masked stabs is pretty strong against people that aren’t used to it, but these things only get you so far. People that are used to it won’t fall for them, they’ll just nail you with a lookdown as soon as you drop the shield because it’ll land before you can get the shield back up.



  • biggest problem i have with shields is getting hit and charge attacked forces your shield down so you get gang ****d when that happens



  • Kinda with other people here in saying that {something} + shield is just a weak setup against maul. Sure, everything should be viable against everything else to some degree, but there are always going to be situations where choosing one weapon is against another is a bad match up. Also Najo, remember that Dusty is a really good player too, so it’s hardly shameful to lose to him when he’s using the one weapon specialised in beating shields (it’s strong against everything at the moment because of stupid mechanics, but that’s a different issue). I bet you don’t lose these match ups against players worse than you.

    I don’t like rock, paper scissors either, but all weapons should have their place, and the maul’s place should be fucking over shields.



  • Just reduce the stun time after being stamina drained, so it actually takes a bit of skill to seize the moment. Not only for shields but in general and no stun reduction when being heavy kicked with a shield.



  • @Darenger:

    Just reduce the stun time after being stamina drained, so it actually takes a bit of skill to seize the moment. Not only for shields but in general and no stun reduction when being heavy kicked with a shield.

    This would be a welcome change. It happens too often when I get gangbanged by let’s say three Men at arms, and even if I manage to take down two of them usually the last one will daze me. The daze timer is so ridiculously long that they have time to dodge back, go “herp-derp auto dodge” and still come back and smash me in the face with a Morning Star slash.



  • As far as we all can see in the video, the mistake lies within your play style which gives the Maul Knight a advantage. No matter what weapon or shield you are using, you will always lose against a Maul in the long run because of its stamina drain, so you will have to make it short, somehow. Use feints effectively, mind that Mauls are pretty straight forward and cannot perform too many moves, so if you play right against your opponent and leave no room for him to play his Maul, you should be all fine. but in this case, I would say the problem lies with you and not the game itself as the Maul Knight is actually using his weapon for what it is intended for, good gameplay from him.

    Now we all know that Maul can be harsh to fight in long run, due to its very high stamina drain. But it drains more stamina from shield because the calculation bases of the weapons base damage rather than the parry drain value.

    For weapon parries, it works as simple as:
    Parry Drain - Parry Negation = Parry cost

    though as for shields, it is:
    Weapon Base Damage / Shield Negation = Block cost, which in this case is a Maul versus a Kite shield, a Maul overhead has the base damage of 132, whilst a kite shield has a negation of 5, so if my values and calculation are right, it would be 132 / 5 = 26,4 stamina per hit, which means you can block four times before you run dry.

    If you pulled out your longsword in two hands, it would be as following: Mauls overhead drain of 35 versus Longswords negation of 17, so that would be 35 - 17 = 18. which you can block additionally six more times before you run dry on stamina.

    All it takes is to press one button, you put yourself at a disadvantage when you fight a Maul with shield. Why would you even need your feint-resistance to back up your lack of reading when it is versus a Maul afterall? A maul can’t even feint that good, so just swap to Longsword and carry on.

    Faulty lies within your gameplay and loadout, so quit bitching just because shields actually have some bits of disadvantage, wish they reworked shields to make them more reliable and less retarded and fail-safe secure for people who can’t face one core combat manouver in chivalry.

    They should be acting like just another parry weapon, with the additional to being able to block projectiles aswell. if that was the case, archers wouldn’t be so overpowered if knights could use a shield as if it was a weapon he would parry with.



  • Lol nobody falls for maul feints. Only way to feint with a maul is to spam it, waste all your stamina and go for the shot shot kill.

    I also find the bearded axe better against shields. You can hit a shield, step back and go for another swing before they can do anything. They have to play extremely passively to stop you doing that which people don’t really seem to like doing.



  • @lemonater47:

    Lol nobody falls for maul feints. Only way to feint with a maul is to spam it, waste all your stamina and go for the shot shot kill.

    I also find the bearded axe better against shields. You can hit a shield, step back and go for another swing before they can do anything. They have to play extremely passively to stop you doing that which people don’t really seem to like doing.

    This is true actually, the bearded axe slash is fast enough to either force a hittrade or hit again before the shielduser can do jack shit. Sadly shields are the only thing the bearded is good against.



  • @Xylvion:

    This is true actually, the bearded axe slash is fast enough to either force a hittrade or hit again before the shielduser can do jack shit. Sadly shields are the only thing the bearded is good against.

    Good shield knights generally have insane footwork and patience though, bearded’s too short to even get close to landing a hit 90% of the time.

    RIP in peace bearded axe, your combo feints will not be missed.



  • The stamina drain for blocking with shields is fucking retarded.



  • @gref:

    The stamina drain for blocking with shields is fucking retarded.

    I usually just stam out and die in 1vX if I use a shield.



  • The lack of riposte and shield up/down time is already very punishing. The stamina drain is a brutal handicap.

    @zombojoe:

    I usually just stam out and die in 1vX if I use a shield.

    There’s nothing you can do in a 1Vx with shield because of no riposte and shield block timings. YOU’RE JUST TOO SLOW! I can’t believe the complaining people have done over the swing animations for shields because in practice, actual fights, shields are incredibly slow.

    I’ve won a few 1Vx with shield but only because my opponents were not being careful or were noobs and because I was using really good footwork.



  • In my opinion shield users should have a riposte, but somewhat slower than non-shield players. Additional mini-windup?

    Shield is quite strong (as of now) for duels though - In good hands ofc.



  • According to new players shields are the most OP things in the game.


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