Chivalry-Hit Trade Warfare



  • Adjusting the windup speed was a REALLY bad idea. The best part of the game’s combat was the lack of spam. It’s now an effective strategy.

    I think you should just change it back to the way it was before and leave it. Sure the game would still be broken, but it’s at least still more fun than hit trading everywhere.



  • hit trading has never been a big issue for me. just don’t attack when your enemy is likely to.



  • but what if they force the trade???

    what do?



  • @zombojoe:

    but what if they force the trade???

    what do?

    Feint to parry.
    Combo feint to parry.
    Sidestep.
    Backpedal.
    Happy feet.
    F10.
    Uninstall.

    I dunno, anything else except continue your attack maybe?



  • @Kreittis:

    I dunno, anything else except continue your attack maybe?

    Great! Let’s write this down, so everyone know how to avoid hit trades:
    1- Attack
    2- Pray for your opponent to be smart enough to avoid stupid counter “hit trade” attack
    3- Your opponent is a caveman; Were is your god now?
    4- Your windup is over: Too late to feint.
    5- Do anything else except continue your attack
    6- Enjoy hit trade



  • i hit trade with polehammer nowdays ez meta

    caveman lottoknights cant handle the 2 htk swag



  • @Argyle:

    Great! Let’s write this down, so everyone know how to avoid hit trades:
    1- Attack
    2- Pray for your opponent to be smart enough to avoid stupid counter “hit trade” attack
    3- Your opponent is a caveman; Were is your god now?
    4- Your windup is over: Too late to feint.
    5- Do anything else except continue your attack
    6- Enjoy hit trade

    You could duck. Or accelerate your attack if he’s going for it to get a better chance of flinching.



  • The only problem I’ve got with hit trades atm is in 1vN situations, newbies really don’t like to parry.



  • @Xylvion:

    The only problem I’ve got with hit trades atm is in 1vN situations, newbies really don’t like to parry.

    That and no friendly flinch.



  • I am confused.

    @Argyle:

    Great! Let’s write this down, so everyone know how to avoid hit trades:
    1- Attack

    Uhhuh. Attacking is good for your health so I don’t see any problems with this.

    @Argyle:

    2- Pray for your opponent to be smart enough to avoid stupid counter “hit trade” attack

    What is “stupid counter “hit trade” attack”? Is that some secret rank 55 strike? Please explain further.

    @Argyle:

    3- Your opponent is a caveman; Were is your god now?

    I don’t see how my opponent being a neanderthal has to do anything with this? And what does my God have anything to do with this? Besides, he is probably on a beach sipping beer or something, no need to bother him.

    @Argyle:

    4- Your windup is over: Too late to feint.

    If your windup is over you are already in release. And when you are in release you can deal damage. And if you can deal damage you can flinch opponents who are still in windup. Why not accelerate your attack?

    @Argyle:

    5- Do anything else except continue your attack
    6- Enjoy hit trade

    Unless you can rewind time that doesn’t apply here.

    Is your scenario like you start your attack as far as possible with your weapon and the opponent also starts his attack as far as possible? Maybe just feint if you see him start his windup too so that you can parry? Unless, of course, you have a maul and want to trade with him and he is 2noob to feint and parry.

    Or perhaps you miscalculated your attack time got traded?

    I still don’t see how someone can “force” a trade. There is always something that you could have done to avoid trades.

    Did I just get ebin trolled or what?

    @Stuffy:

    That and no friendly flinch.

    Friendly flinch was so popular that every single one of the forum dwellers agreed to remove it. It was so fun being flinched by nubcakes and it was not uncommon to see server empty because getting flinched by braindead teammates was not very fun.

    You can’t even escape the braindeads, if you do well they WILL follow you and they WILL LMB you. Happens even these days but it isn’t THAT bad because at least you don’t get flinched. Instead you have to spend 3 minutes to regen after every conflict and hope that archers don’t shoot you.



  • I still don’t have problems with hit trading either but as said before it does become harder in 1vs2+, but I think the biggest reasons why people complain about it so much are:

    1. Most people suck at parrying reverse swings
    2. Higher pings make certain riposte animations very hard to react reasonably to, even the maul
    3. Stamina usage is very high right now, making feint to parry and combo feint to parry far too costly against many of the popular weapons so you feel more inclined not to use them and trade hits instead
    4. Maul needs to have speed reverted especially now to help compensate for .4 wind up nerf. Maul also should never one shot knights, nothing should

    There is no such thing as “force hit trade.” If you get hit traded and you didn’t want it, you made a mistake and played wrong. Solutions would be to remove damage tracers from very early release to prevent reverse swings, make stamina values better so you’re not running out as much and feel more inclined to ftp and cftp, and/or nerfing the maul.



  • @Kreittis:

    I am confused.

    I am confused too :)

    Basically, you are saying that hit trade is not a problem, you just have to feint to parry and it is OK. But, even if you are attacking first you will have to switch from attack to defense, with the benefit of both the stamina cost and the risk of failing this feint to parry (bad timing), while your opponent just LMB spam with his messer. Why trying to attack then? Just wait for the swing, and “force” hit trade: Your opponent will feint to parry = you win the first round.

    The second option is to accelerate your attack. Best things to do IMO, but far from the most intuitive move. Moreover, Messer windup time can easily be missed if you are not quick enough resulting in simple hit trade.

    So yes, there is some way to avoid hit trades, but they are way too hard to master in comparison with taking a messer and spam LMB. And that’s exactly what 1/2 CMW player is doing right now. Avoiding hit trade while fighting against 1 Messer LMB spam is hard enough, but against 2 it is just nearly impossible (at least they often succeed in team killing each other, but still, you WILL experience hit trade).

    Can someone recall how FiR used to work before it was removed?



  • @Kreittis:

    Friendly flinch was so popular that every single one of the forum dwellers agreed to remove it. It was so fun being flinched by nubcakes and it was not uncommon to see server empty because getting flinched by braindead teammates was not very fun.

    You can’t even escape the braindeads, if you do well they WILL follow you and they WILL LMB you. Happens even these days but it isn’t THAT bad because at least you don’t get flinched. Instead you have to spend 3 minutes to regen after every conflict and hope that archers don’t shoot you.

    I totally agree with you, but it still sucks. And the 50% teamdamage on most offical servers makes it even worse. New players learn that mashing lmb is an actually somewhat viable tactic on pubs.



  • So basically as I mentioned in another thread:

    • Feint stamina cost 15 -> 10
    • Parry stamina drain Min/Max 8/25 -> 5/20
    • Parry negotiation changes so that only maul on weak one handers drain 20 stamina and set charges to drain 20 stamina instead of 25, or whatever they drain. (I don’t think this is correct in wolfys spreadsheets as he never updated the parry values after june 2013). Perhaps even keep the stamina drain on 2hs below 12.
    • Change max drain on shields to 15/18/22/25 respectivly and change shield negotiation values from there. Perhaps add stamina drain on raising the shield so people get punished for doing so at the wrong time.
    • Change kick stamina drains by 20->10 for MAA and 25 -> 15 for the rest.
    • Not sure how much stamina is drained by getting kicked, but lower it to 5 stamina (seems fair) or remove it completely.
    • Decrease special daze time from 1.8 -> 1.5

    This would prevent the stamina warfare that we’ve got going atm. It would also make CftP more attractive to use with the lower stamina drain making the caveman hit trade meta fade away.



  • @Xylvion:

    So basically as I mentioned in another thread:

    • Feint stamina cost 15 -> 10
    • Parry stamina drain Min/Max 8/25 -> 5/20
    • Parry negotiation changes so that only maul on weak one handers drain 20 stamina and set charges to drain 20 stamina instead of 25, or whatever they drain. (I don’t think this is correct in wolfys spreadsheets as he never updated the parry values after june 2013). Perhaps even keep the stamina drain on 2hs below 12.
    • Change max drain on shields to 15/18/22/25 respectivly and change shield negotiation values from there. Perhaps add stamina drain on raising the shield so people get punished for doing so at the wrong time.
    • Change kick stamina drains by 20->10 for MAA and 25 -> 15 for the rest.
    • Not sure how much stamina is drained by getting kicked, but lower it to 5 stamina (seems fair) or remove it completely.
    • Decrease special daze time from 1.8 -> 1.5

    This would prevent the stamina warfare that we’ve got going atm. It would also make CftP more attractive to use with the lower stamina drain making the caveman hit trade meta fade away.

    Thankyou based xylvion.

    Only thing I’m not too sure on are the shield mechanic changes. Care to elaborate?



  • @LTTLWLF:

    Thankyou based xylvion.

    Only thing I’m not too sure on are the shield mechanic changes. Care to elaborate?

    Sure thing, not really on topic so I thought I wouldn’t go to deep into it but. . .
    Right now there’s no max drain on shields they drain the stamina of the weapons ‘damage/shield block negotiation’ 1 thing would be to change the value of the shield negotiations:
    Buckler 4 -> 6
    Heater 4.5 -> 7
    Kite 5 -> 9
    Tower 6 -> 11
    This would make every shield able to block more incoming attacks, while this might be an overbuff it can also be a way to balance the sheilds. for example by adding a drain while raising the shield, ‘clicking on RMB’, to 3-5 stamina for the shields. 3 stamina obviously isn’t a lot, but it’s could be a lot if you kept raising it multiple times with no incoming attacks. Also I’d suggest to have the hold drain kick in as soon as the shield is up and not after 5 seconds, this would make both drags and feints more viable against shieldusers.

    Example on how this would effect a match between towershield and maul overhead for example, compared to now:
    Atm the maul overhead on a towershield drains 22 stamina, it’s a lot only weak weapons such as norse sword lose as much stamina from parrying a maul. if towershield had 11 instead of 6 as their parry negotiator the maul would drain 12 stamina with an overhead. Now you may think well that would make shields slightly OP now wouldn’t it? (the buckler would be like the current tower shield) The answer is yes ofc it would. BUT what if there was 3-5 stamina drained while the shield was raised as well, then it’s all of a sudden 15-17 to block the maul (25-27 for buckler which is about the same as the current kite). Now 15-17 seems like a more reasonable value considering it’s basically immune to feints, but remember the maul is the weapon which drains the most stamina in game on shields, low damaging weapons might just deal 3-7 (Forgot to mention that I tink the minimum stamina drain should be changed from 7->3 on shields) stamina damage + the additional 3-5 from the shield raise which isn’t that much to be honest. Now the stamina drain over time kicks in after 5 seconds which is quite a long time, no one ever holds their shields up for 5 seconds really, it drains 2.5-> 4stamina per second held up after that 5 second timer, so after 6 seconds with the tower shield your stamina gets drained by 4. Right now you can easily lower it between 4-5 seconds and raise it again and no stamina will be drained. If this timer instead starts at once then it will for example drain 4 stamina/second that the towershield is up, but if you raise and lower it over and over it drains 5 stamina/time you do so.

    How does this effect the shields? Altogether the sheild will drain less stamina from getting bashed by enemies but you will be punished by additional stamina drain if you misread a feint or a drag.

    Wolfy had this idea to remove the stamina cost from enemy attacks on shields completely and instead increase drain/second and add drain on raise, which would also be an option but could make shields really really OP if used correctly.



  • There is no reason to change stun daze from 1.8 when you’re also decreasing stamina usage. Stamina should be an integral part of the game that punishes you for not using it wisely and running out of it, so 1.8 is perfect. The problem right now is that you run out of stamina so fast so there’s no room for “wise stamina play” in 1vs2+ which is why the stun daze feels too punishing. But instead of lowering stun daze, decrease stamina usage so that when you do run out it’s because you actually screwed up and deserve to get overheaded by maul. Also, make “breathing heavy” only occur when your next parry will daze you. MaAs still get a parry and two dodges when they breathe heavy, it’s really hard to keep track of your enemies’ stamina when they start breathing heavy especially when you’re like me and use a lot of different weapons which each cause different stamina drain values.



  • @SOC:

    There is no such thing as “force hit trade.” If you get hit traded and you didn’t want it, you made a mistake and played wrong. Solutions would be to remove damage tracers from very early release to prevent reverse swings, make stamina values better so you’re not running out as much and feel more inclined to ftp and cftp, and/or nerfing the maul.

    The stupidity in your posts amaze me everytime



  • Nononono, when they breathe heavy they got less than 30 stamina left. dodge cost 20 stamina they can’t dodge twice after that. I still think that the panting should start on less than 20 stamina instead as with 30 your opponent might be able to parry another 3-4 times before running dry which in my opinion is silly.

    Other than that the 1.8 timer is too long imo, it was 1.5 before and that was long enough to be frank. Now you can basically take a break, drink some coffee and then hit your opponent when they get dazed.



  • @CRUSHED:

    The stupidity in your posts amaze me everytime

    Yeah the lower skill cap in EU makes it harder to understand the higher thought of better skilled players.

    But the problem is that anytime an MaA starts panting he can reset the fight and regen by back pedaling and proper footwork to get extra dodges and parties before he actually runs out. He has more effective stamina than any class in the game that way. I agree with setting it back to 20, I think that’s what it was before.

    Daze should be heavily punished with more than ample time to land an overhead maul, that’s the point. We just shouldn’t be running out as often and you should only get dazed when you managed poorly and deserved it.


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