Javelin ballance thread



  • Close Combat:
    Short Spear 0,4sec Windup 50 PierceDmg
    Javelin 0,425sec 60 PierceDmg
    Heavy Javelin 0,45sec 70 PierceDmg
    Shieldbash 0,4 Windup 35 Bluntdmg
    compaire with
    Broadsword 0,5sec Windup 55 PierceDmg
    Norsesword 0,45 windup 55 PierceDmg
    or
    SwordofWar 0,6Windup 68 PierceDmg

    If we ignore the throwing ability completely and look only at closecombat then we can clearly see weapons that are straight upgrades to stabbing weapons of dedicated CloseCombat classes. I mean ok its unlikly but this could be ballanced if you couldnt throw the spears but you can!!!Those weapons allways 2shot Vanguard and 3 hits for a knight. And you will get those hits because they drag better than a broadsword.
    The feints are impossible to read, even blockfeinting is hard to read once they are in your face and start shieldbashing you. They can allways remove flinch with the help of their shield and than interupt your combo with a 2hitkill weapon.

    Ranged combat:

    The Heavy Javelin kill MAA with body shoots /facepalm a Vanguard has 4hp after a body hit /facepalm
    what were they thinking?!?
    The other javelins only reduce your hp to 1hit-to-kill instead of outright killing you but can be thrown at lightning speed

    If you get out stammed out or shieldkicked there is enough time for a javelin to be thrown into your face

    Javelins can be reloaded and thrown while running so the archers just turn arround and kite you making it impossible for anyone without a shield to close in on them.

    The Shield:
    There is a lot of people that suck with the buckler but they are just scrubs as i am pretty sure the buckler has the same parrybox as everything else.
    The stamina is also not a problem for archers as they allways start a fight on full stamina vs wounded opponents
    I allready meantioned that the shield can remove flinch for guaranteed hit trade?

    Close+Ranged Combat:
    If you make it into combat then it probably only happend after extensive misstakes of the archer as he could have easily kited you for the rest of the game.
    Ok so if you now haven’t got enough hp to survive a single hit then expect to be hit traded so be ready to cftp. That is if you got the stamina but you can be sure that your opposing archer has full stamina so dont even try to go for a long fight. Its not like you could survive the feinting powers of the javelins in a drawn out battle. The problem with the feinting is that you got to stay very close to the archer so he cant start throwing a javelin. This is very hard as an archer can just parry+jump and then he is half a mile away from you



  • Javelins are fine, their close combat is predictable, have slow recovery after throwing and they die in one hit. Buckler is more a hindrance than an asset - slower to raise than parry and a heavy kick and you are dead.



  • @gregcau:

    1. Javelins are fine,
    2. their close combat is predictable,
      3)have slow recovery after throwing and they die in one hit.
      4)Buckler is more a hindrance than an asset -
      5)slower to raise than parry
      6)and a heavy kick and you are dead.
    1. lol
    2. you cant read a stab feint with 0,4 sec windup there goes your predictability
      3)What??? 0,5sec recovery is slow??? Not a single knights weapon has that low recovery actually not even a single vanguard weapons has such good recovery times. If you raised you shield to block that javelin then you cant punish the archer so fast is it!
      4)Buckler is great if you dont have to care about stamina which archers dont have to.
      5)And? Everytime someone parries you, you press rmb and look for a kick. If you see the kick you drop the shield.
      6)With the incredible fast rasie and drop times you are invulnerable to feints ripostes and kicks


  • I agree that javelins should be nerfed as they’re the most OP weapons in game atm.



  • I’ve never seen a javelineer get anywhere in a competitive solo match. Maybe you are just not used to fighting them since it is not picked very often.



  • @gregcau:

    I’ve never seen a javelineer get anywhere in a competitive solo match. Maybe you are just not used to fighting them since it is not picked very often.

    lol man haha


  • Global Moderator

    Javelins can’t combo.

    Javelins mean that both players in melee will die in 1 hit. Rather than just the archer. But the javalineer only has feints in melee. Saying they are OP in melee is a flat out lie lol.



  • @lemonater47:

    Javelins can’t combo.
    But the javalineer only has feints in melee.

    Well in most situatuions you dont need to combo as your opponent will be dead in 1hit and it also mean that after every attack you enter a state there you can feint again.
    All in all combos are only realy usefull if you have bad recovery speed or amazing combotimes

    Here a list what broadsword can do: quick riposte, drag past parry, feint , medium dmg , medium speed combos , fast attack
    Heavy Javelin : –-------------, drag past parry, feint , high dmg, --------, shield feint , fast attack

    If you assume that the broadsword is used with a shield it becomes even more clear that the Javelins are straight upgrades as they are faster and deal more dmg


  • Global Moderator

    Lol wut?

    I’d rather face a heavy javelin than a broadsword lol.



  • javs arent that good



  • did you guys know that javs do more damage if sprinting?

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkCaqK9JaJDIdEo3NDJKWkk5SVhRY2tEYjBLSk1xbWc#gid=102

    according to this they do.

    I got accused of hacking recently while using short spears because i kept 1 shotting vanguards to torso. This might explain it.

    i had no idea.

    http://steamcommunity.com/groups/chivserveradmin/discussions/0/620696522208529300/



  • They don’t do more damage while sprinting, the feature is not in use atm. Javelins got combo animations as well, yet they aren’t able to combo.



  • @50ShadesofClay:

    did you guys know that javs do more damage if sprinting?

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkCaqK9JaJDIdEo3NDJKWkk5SVhRY2tEYjBLSk1xbWc#gid=102

    according to this they do.

    I got accused of hacking recently while using short spears because i kept 1 shotting vanguards to torso. This might explain it.

    i had no idea.

    http://steamcommunity.com/groups/chivserveradmin/discussions/0/620696522208529300/

    It doesnt work for me against bots



  • @Xylvion:

    They don’t do more damage while sprinting, the feature is not in use atm. Javelins got combo animations as well, yet they aren’t able to combo.

    Crypt taught me knights have a charge and charge yell animation



  • @swagfox:

    Crypt taught me knights have a charge and charge yell animation

    Wanna know something else all classes have? it rhymes with lodge.



  • @Xylvion:

    Wanna know something else all classes have? it rhymes with lodge.

    I just threw up



  • Really? Javs? Is the bearded axe next?
    Learn to dodge the slow-as-fuck, telegraphed-as-fuck jav throws and lop their head off when they run out of ammo. The main advantage of archer melee comes from the insanely fast ripostes all of their weapons have. Jav archers are equipped with a buckler which severely cripples their melee. Also, if you’re close enough to be jav stabbed and aren’t already in the process of killing them you deserve to lose.

    Stop acting like no class/weapon should have an advantage over yours and maybe we can salvage this game. Torn Banner seems like they’re trying really hard to listen to their community and make a balanced and enjoyable game but when asshats like you get curbstomped by people who excel with certain weapons you run to the forums and whine resulting in unnecessary nerfs to mid-tier weapons.
    As far as I can tell, the best thing for Torn Banner to do balance-wise would be to ignore literally ever suggestion that comes out of this community and figure shit out using statistics and shit because from the time I started paying attention to patch notes until now I’ve noticed the the most nerfed classes are the ones with lesser representation on this forum.



  • @Baglady74:

    Really? Javs? Is the bearded axe next?
    Learn to dodge the slow-as-fuck, telegraphed-as-fuck jav throws and lop their head off when they run out of ammo. The main advantage of archer melee comes from the insanely fast ripostes all of their weapons have. Jav archers are equipped with a buckler which severely cripples their melee. Also, if you’re close enough to be jav stabbed and aren’t already in the process of killing them you deserve to lose.

    Stop acting like no class/weapon should have an advantage over yours and maybe we can salvage this game. Torn Banner seems like they’re trying really hard to listen to their community and make a balanced and enjoyable game but when asshats like you get curbstomped by people who excel with certain weapons you run to the forums and whine resulting in unnecessary nerfs to mid-tier weapons.
    As far as I can tell, the best thing for Torn Banner to do balance-wise would be to ignore literally ever suggestion that comes out of this community and figure shit out using statistics and shit because from the time I started paying attention to patch notes until now I’ve noticed the the most nerfed classes are the ones with lesser representation on this forum.

    wut lol. they can switch to shortsword just like a regular archer. did you not know that? javs do a shitload of damage, and good javelineers will hit you if youre close enough. theyre only ez to dodge at long range but you use xbow for range anyway. archer nerfs can only be good for this game, even if theyre over the top.



  • @Baglady74:

    Learn to dodge the slow-as-fuck, telegraphed-as-fuck jav throws and lop their head off when they run out of ammo.

    I dont know what game you have been playing, but every ranged weapon feels like a fucken gun.
    The Archers are not even looking in your direction but projectiles still fly in your direction.
    Even the projectile you see on your screen isnt the real projectile, instead you got to look at the archers monitor for accurate information. There is also no evasion in the last 150ms dude to client side hit detection so you better not try to dodge an allready thrown jav.



  • @TheFunnySide:

    I dont know what game you have been playing, but every ranged weapon feels like a fucken gun.
    The Archers are not even looking in your direction but projectiles still fly in your direction.
    Even the projectile you see on your screen isnt the real projectile, instead you got to look at the archers monitor for accurate information. There is also no evasion in the last 150ms dude to client side hit detection so you better not try to dodge an allready thrown jav.

    ^Basically this.