Balance and bugfixes, please



  • So today I tried playing some plant the banner. I’ve played it before a while back and I thought it’d be fun to try again. I was right. It’s actually great fun and I saw a lot of new players get in to it and work together as a team. Until the third banner was captured. Then this happened

    The banner wouldn’t spawn and the team that was ahead automatically had their win after the timer ran out, leaving no chance for the opposite team to do a comeback.
    It’s a shame that this gamemode is bugged because as I stated earlier, it’s actually super fun.
    Another bug is that with the vikings, it sometimes seems like the viking attacks on its own. I think it’s due to the fact that vikings get faster swings when they combo their attacks. When you try to attack while you would normally be unable to it’s like it stores the command and attacks when you are able to. I’m not sure if this is intentional, but it’s really annoying at times and can get you killed a lot. Also sometimes the crosshair disappears. Not sure why it happens.

    Some of the weapons/playstyles in the game just get an unfair advantage over others at higher levels of skill.

    -Ninjato seems way too fast considering it has good damage and good reach. If you start dragging your attacks in (speeding them up by moving your hips with the attack) they become incredibly fast, which of course is intended but at its current state it just gets too fast when you do this.

    -Viking shieldbash (fast) can be followed up with a seemingly unparryable(from what I have experienced) attack. (bug, exploit?)

    -Nodachi has a super fast stab considering its range, drag capabilities and damage… usually a weapon with long reach sacrifices in speed or damage but nodachi doesn’t due to the fast stab- players who practice a bit with the nodachi can change the pace of their attacks in an instant, switching from a slow drag to a follow up stab that is extremely fast. This constant change of pace leaves the opponent guessing and will wipe them out in no time if it’s not someone with a LOT of hours in the game - it’s not unbeatable but I feel like it is still an unfair weapon. I’ve tried duelling someone who used the nodachi, he got to about 8 wins over me and I had 2 vs him. As soon as he changed to katana I absolutely demolished him.

    -The knight sword of war seems to have longer range than what is represented in the model, just shortening the hitbox a tiny bit or changing the look of the sword might fix it, but I don’t know. (bug?)

    -Naginata seems a bit unbalanced when dragging. Same goes for halberd

    -Spartan shield bash can at times be very difficult to parry, especially the extremely fast alternate shieldbash swing. (bug?)

    -The knight mace is slightly too fast on stabs. People often spam the stab and tend not to use any other direction of attacks simply because the stab is so strong.

    There are probably more unbalanced things out there. This list is entirely based on my opinion/experience and some other players and only counts for players who use the weapons at a higher skill level.

    I feel like DW in general is an unpolished diamond. Such a great game but it’s being held down by bugs and balance issues. I’m not expecting balance patches (only hoping) but I’d expect the bugs to be fixed - we all payed money for this game and would like to have it in good shape and not have bugs like the one at plant the banner that completely breaks the gamemode.

    What do you guys think in terms of weapon balancing? Any other significant bugs?



  • -Reduce Ninjato thrust speed slightly, but buff it’s damage.

    -Either reduce two handed Sword of War thrust damage by 30%, or make it’s animation easier to see.

    -Fix one handed Sword of War alt-LMB animation (it hits with the hilt of the weapon, rather than the blade, making it much harder to parry/block)

    -Fix the Naginata’s forward+left movement animation, which serves as a feint for thrust

    -Nerf Knight Mace stab speed by 30-40%

    -Remove throw capability from Dory and increase it’s melee speed slightly

    -Fix Shield Bash hitbox to be the full-shield, then buff the damage/speed of the sword weapons slightly (except Falcata)

    -Fix Ninja claws having 0 kick cooldown.

    -Fix Viking shield kick having very small cooldown

    -Nerf Blunderbuss accuracy considerably

    -Increase Yari attack speed, or damage by 20%

    -Nerf Viking Hatchet damage by 10-15%

    -Buff Sarissa attack speed or damage by 30% (It can’t even touch Viking spear at the moment in speed or damage, despite what people say about it being ‘op’ (what bad people say, anyway))

    -Buff Hammer attack speed by 10%

    As for your ‘Nodachi’ bit, ‘git gud’ is what I have to say to that. Nodachi isn’t even remotely unfair. As someone who has to fight the best Nodachi player all the time, you learn how to deal with it.



  • I reported the plant the banner bug back at the beginning of the year.

    GG torn banner.



  • @TheMightyAltroll:

    As for your ‘Nodachi’ bit, ‘git gud’ is what I have to say to that. Nodachi isn’t even remotely unfair. As someone who has to fight the best Nodachi player all the time, you learn how to deal with it.

    Well it’s just my opinion on the Nodachi. As I mentioned I fought a player using the nodachi who killed me a bunch of times. When he decided to change weapon he couldn’t touch me. Maybe it’s just because I don’t do well agains nodachi, but from what I’ve seen, most samurai players use nodachi or naginata. I’m not saying the weapon should be nerfed to the ground but maybe change the pace of the stab just a tiny bit. It seems too fast to me.
    And it’s not like I CAN’T deal with nodachi, I certainly can, but when I fight other weapons I deal with them much better than the long ass sword with ridiculous stab speed.
    So it’s because of that and the fact that I’ve noticed most samurais tend to go for either nodachi or naginata that I think they should be nerfed slightly.



  • Everyone thinks the no-dachi is unfair lol. Low windup times with long release times. Why use anything other than the no-dachi its the most flexible weapon in the game.

    Also add in CFtP, PiP, jump kicks and remove flinch in release.



  • @Noob-in-Pyjamas:

    Well it’s just my opinion on the Nodachi. As I mentioned I fought a player using the nodachi who killed me a bunch of times. When he decided to change weapon he couldn’t touch me. Maybe it’s just because I don’t do well agains nodachi, but from what I’ve seen, most samurai players use nodachi or naginata. I’m not saying the weapon should be nerfed to the ground but maybe change the pace of the stab just a tiny bit. It seems too fast to me.
    And it’s not like I CAN’T deal with nodachi, I certainly can, but when I fight other weapons I deal with them much better than the long ass sword with ridiculous stab speed.
    So it’s because of that and the fact that I’ve noticed most samurais tend to go for either nodachi or naginata that I think they should be nerfed slightly.

    As someone who uses Nodachi, and Katana quite often, Naginata is WAAAY worse than the Nodachi.

    Anywho, it’s very easy to beat the Nodachi, if it’s that bad, I can show you how.



  • @TheMightyAltroll:

    As someone who uses Nodachi, and Katana quite often, Naginata is WAAAY worse than the Nodachi.

    Anywho, it’s very easy to beat the Nodachi, if it’s that bad, I can show you how.

    Tbh if you have specific tricks that you use to do so I’d be happy if you did show me.
    If you got the time, add me on steam. Just search Noob-in-Pyjamas and you’ll find me.



  • I’d start with nerfing movement speed. Knight which got the lowest walking speed, 220 got 10 more than MaA who’s the fastest class in MW. DW is just silly when it comes to footwork, no skill needed LMB best attack, everyone is Sonic and runs at warpspeed.



  • @Xylvion:

    I’d start with nerfing movement speed. Knight which got the lowest walking speed, 220 got 10 more than MaA who’s the fastest class in MW. DW is just silly when it comes to footwork, no skill needed LMB best attack, everyone is Sonic and runs at warpspeed.

    Yeeaaaaaah…… Thanks for the in-depth analysis on DW balance there Xy. The movement speed is supposed to be fast, it’s not unplayable or too fast by any means.

    Nodachi is only difficult to fight if the user is skilled with it, but even then Samurai’s are kinda squishy. Viking shield is really annoying how it still blocks attacks from the side and behind. Spartans who chuck their spears constantly are pretty gai too. Really though the best way to play is hiding with a blunderbuss then killstealing distracted people.
    Yarr harrr haarrrrr. When ur done walkin’ the plank, ye can ride it…



  • @Noob-in-Pyjamas:

    Tbh if you have specific tricks that you use to do so I’d be happy if you did show me.
    If you got the time, add me on steam. Just search Noob-in-Pyjamas and you’ll find me.

    I’ll show you how to beat it. It’s one of the worst weapons if your opponent knows how to stop it.



  • To get an idea what needs to be fixed/nerfed, all that needs to be done is a look to the high ranked player loadouts on any server.

    Samurai: always Naginata. Why? Because the walking animation serves as an auto feint for the stab, as the stab lacks a decent windup animation. And if they happen to have a tiny bit more brain than the average naginata user, they’ll even use something other than stab (which isn’t necessary to win), in which case it becomes one of the most draggable weapons in the game.

    Spartan: Usually dory for primary because who doesn’t like to instakill ninjas and pirates with little aiming required? But only those two classes really suffer and you’ll see the dory being swapped out for other spears sometimes if the server lacks the aforementioned two classes. As for the sword- do I really need to spell this out? In all my couple of hundred hours I haven’t seen a SINGLE spartan who was using something other than falcata, excluding those who haven’t unlocked it yet. Why? Because who doesn’t want to two hit every class 9 times out of 10, all the while having reach comparable to a two hander and barely noticable speed reduction? It’s a weapon without a downside and has been due for one since release.

    Ninja: again, a pretty obvious one. Go to any server and try to find a high ranked ninja who isn’t using ninjato (trolls excluded). 9 out of 10 ninjas out there seem to use ninjato and why? Well, because of the stab, obviously. I have never had cause to believe that my reaction was slower than any other average human being out there, so I’m going to go ahead and assume that the counterstab speed is beyond the reactionary capabilities of an average human. If you’re fighting a ninja who uses counterstabs, you either parry immediately after your swing lands, or you’ll miss the parry window if you actually look for the animation. If the ninja is predictable and you guess well- good for you. But if not, well, prepare to meet the sharp end of that sword again and again and again. Not to mention that the regular stab is already much quicker than the other attacks, so it’s easy to throw people off with combos. Think of it as a mini nodachi, except that thing, while having a huge disparity between the stab and swing animation speed, at least has reactable speed on both. Ninjato? Stabspam, win.

    Knight: here’s an interesting example, where you DO see a variety of loadouts if only because several weapons have broken capabilities. The sword of war is probably the most common one, owing that to its counterstab animation which is juuuuust a tiny bit too fast and lacking in animation quality. The speed could actually be fine if the animation had more frames to it. But as long as it remains lackluster, people will try to exploit it. Then there’s the mace, which has exactly the same problem as Ninjato, so I won’t repeat myself. And you also occasionally see the halberd in use, which, due to its massive damage and range and extremely draggable swings, appears to be yet another weapon without a decent downside (like the spartan falcata.) I reckon if the sword of war and the mace had their exploitable stabs fixed, it would become the new de-facto knight favorite, so it’s due for a reasonable downside. Maybe reduce the counter speed or make it cost more stamina to swing.

    As for the viking: the hatchet+spear seems to be the best combo. The hatchet does just a little too much damage for how blazingly fast it is and you get an extra one to throw, so there’s really no reason to pick any other one hander. And the spear is a good pick with the hatchet because it provides that reach for when you need it, in addition to having one of the best if not the best speed and damage out of all spear weapons in the game. But you DO see some variety in viking loadouts throughout the servers, the two handed axe and the hammer see frequent use, so I would say it’s the class that requires the least attention in terms of weapon balance, as opposed to other classes where clear favorites stand out.

    The pirate, well, I see all of his weapons getting frequent use and never had much problem dealing with either. The only real problem I noticed was some players getting infinite molotovs somehow by combining them with the blunderbuss. But that’s not a very effective combo once you actually catch up to them, so I’ll let it slide. It could still use a fix, though.

    Until all of these things get adressed, the high level play in CDW will be boring simply because you can’t afford to pick a lesser weapon. In doing so, you are intentionally crippling your chances to win a fight with players who did pick the superior weapon and will do their best to exploit the strengths of it.



  • Good post, but I remember reading a dev post recently where he said categorically that they weren’t planning to patch DW



  • Very nice post Velociraptor, you hit pretty much everything. I’d add a slight note that pirates are quite shitty overall and need a buff to be a viable class in high-skill games.

    Your notes on Spartan weapons are funny because they’re so damn true and everybody knows it. Dory 1-hit killing 2 of the classes is bullshit. Falcata is 2-hit killing most of the time is ridiculous.

    Harry The Bastard, please link the dev post saying that, I want to see!



  • I don’t think its bullshit. A lethal game is a good game.



  • @lemonater47:

    I don’t think its bullshit. A lethal game is a good game.

    A lethal game is only a good game when everyone involved is equally lethal. The Spartan dory doesn’t fit in that category. Allow me to explain with a comparison of the game’s two classes.

    A Spartan meets a Pirate. The Pirate has a more effective range. He shoots first with his pistol, aims very well, lands a headshot. The Spartan is down to a tiny fraction of his health. The Pirate starts reloading. As he does so, the Spartan runs into a medium distance and throws his dory, aiming moderately well and hits the Pirate in the torso. Or the arm. The Pirate is instakilled. Alternative: the Pirate attempts to close the distance after landing a headshot and finish the Spartan off. The Spartan throws his dory as the Pirate closes in. It hits its mark. The Pirate is instakilled. Does this seem like something close to mutual lethality to you?

    And, to add to the disparity between classes, note this. The Pirates have supreme long ranged power, no one disputes that. The pistol is the hardest hitting long range weapon and the blunderbuss is absolutely devastating at close to medium ranges. However, note that the pirate is also the only class that is unable to retrieve his ammunition. That balances out the power he’s got, because if you start a last team standing match with, say, a standart number of 24 players and you have 8 bullets, you know you don’t have a bullet for each enemy, even if you shoot with 100 % accuracy. And once you fire a shot, hit or miss, that shot is spent. It’s not coming back until you die and respawn. And while you CAN instakill two classes in the game, it requires a headshot, something that isn’t easy to pull off, especially at range. And even if you do pull it off, you paid for that life with one of your precious bullets. It’s fair.

    Now the Spartan. You can instakill 2 classes with bodyshots (and damn near instakill the rest, leaving them black and white) AND you can kill each and every single class with a headshot. But what do you pay for this supreme mid range power? Nothing. As long as the target on the other end dies, and they will most often die, you can retrieve the dory right back from the corpse and be ready to instakill again. Your biggest worry is accidentally lodging the spear in the shield of an enemy, or worse, a friendly, but even then you can retrieve it by killing the enemy or waiting until the friend dies. And when you miss, as long as you didn’t throw it beyond the map borders, you can retrieve it too. What I’m trying to say is that despite the ammo counter saying “1”, the Spartan with a dory has essentially infinite ammunition as long as he’s not careless with his throws. And to add to that, it is the most damaging ranged weapon in the game. Where is the downside, I ask?

    That is precisely why you don’t see anyone using a sarissa. Trade my instakill throwable that is also a decent melee for… what? Slightly more range, while removing my trusty shield and the ability to do huge ranged damage? No thanks.

    I would say a fair nerf for the dory would be this: it has two ends. Historically those were used so if one side breaks, you can flip the spear around and use the other, before it becomes completely useless. Let’s use that in the game. It could work like this: you throw the dory and if it hits its mark and does damage, one of the ends is considered broken. You can pick it up and use it as a melee weapon. But if you throw it again and score a hit- the other end is broken too and you can no longer retrieve it and are forced to use your sword for the remainder of your life (or pick up one of the spears other Spartans have thrown). THAT would encourage using the dory as primarily a melee weapon and throwing it away when the situation favors the sword (exactly how it was used historically). And if you DO want to play a ranged Spartan, then pick one of the other spear weapons that would weaken you in melee, should you choose to engage with them, but provide reliable, retrievable ranged weapons. And maybe, just maybe if dory didn’t have infinite throwing ability, we could see the sarissa being used more often.



  • @Harry:

    Good post, but I remember reading a dev post recently where he said categorically that they weren’t planning to patch DW

    Eh, I know all this is just wishful thinking. This game has been out for a year and if they haven’t patched it yet, they won’t. It’s not JUST the balance that’s a bother. The maps are full of glitchy spots that can get you stuck and there’s the whole issue of ninjas being able to exploit their rolls and jumps to get up on places no other class can reach, the vote system requires a console command to initiate, plant the banner mode is broken as the banner disappears after someone scores, the chat system gets hung up after the match ends, the teambalance is nonexistent and can be circumvented even if you DO get autobalanced, allowing huge teamstacking. And those are just the issues I can come up from the top of my head. I’m sure there are many more.

    But hey, this is Torn Banner, people. Passion and innovation in video game design. Where “passion” means releasing titles and subsequently forgetting about them (instead focusing on bringing the already broken titles to other platforms) and “innovation” I suppose means releasing games comparable to alpha stage and selling them as full product. At least the other game companies have the decency to admit it’s an unfinished build.

    I’m sorry about the negativity, but I have just lost faith after two years of wishful thinking.



  • What idiot of a pirate would reload in front of a spartan. Spears can be dodged. In the alpha you used to be able to parry throwing spears( you could actually parry bullets). But they were far to easy to parry every time.

    The he spartan misses with his dory. What now. Happens more often than a hit against someone who’s no fool. The pirate needs his buffs and the spartan his nerfs but nerfing the dory ain’t the way to go. The Falcata and shield bash need nerfs. Slower recovery times for the falcata (slower release times if they implement CFtP) and more parry tracers added to the shield bash. The secondaries need to be weakened to make the spear something to hold on to rather than thrown. Maybe even more stamina drain on spartan weapons to make them fill their shock troop role better rather than all rounder.

    The sarrisa is the rofl stick. Amazing in combination with the S key. Its the best melee spear out of all of them currently. Great 1vN weapon.

    Also for samurai its the no-dachi that everyone uses. Not the naginata. The no-dachi has fast windup times with slow release times making it the most flexible weapon in the game. Naginata needs a stab damage nerf but the no-dachi needs its timings completely redone. At least the naginata is consistently slow. Also the fact you have trouble seeing animations is no fault of the game. I have no problems.

    Nerfing everything isn’t balance. If you do that you face an endless list of changes. More “problems” arise when you nerf a whole bunch of weapons.



  • The Spartan misses with his dory. What now? Why, he’ll just draw his falcata and use that to cut his way to where he has thrown his spear. Sure, the Pirate can dodge the dory, but in the end, that STILL relies on the Spartan missing. If you’ve played this game for a long time, you know well as I do that a competent Spartan thrower will not be as easy to dodge as you describe. Your situation happens more often when the Spartan is bad and the Pirate is good. Not among equally skilled players. The only players who have a relable ACTIVE defence against dory are those who have shields. For the others, dory is one the same level of threat as the Pirate weapons, that is, you run in unpredictable patterns and/or take cover and hope that the ranger is thrown off by that and misses his shot, but if he’s good, he won’t be thrown off by that effectively. The difference is, however, that a Pirate who spends his powerful attack, hit or miss, can’t retrieve that ammo. A Spartan can and that’s the problem. Dory throw count should be limited.

    I agree on the shield bash nerf, though, especially the alternative one. I can parry the regular shield bash just fine, but I know a lot of people who have problems with it, but the alt bash is just horrible.

    Nodachi is the most draggable weapon in the game and the only Samurai weapon that provides competition for the naginata, but really, the naginata Samurai are a far more frequent sight on the battlefield from my experience. The nodachi is the second best weapon of the Samurai due to its dragging capabilities and a deceptively fast stab for a two hander, but the naginata takes the advantage because it has both the huge (slightly lower) dragging capability, a fast stab, AND on top of it all, like I mentioned, it has the walking animation quirk that is extremely similar to the windup of the stab, which itself is poorly made and not distinctive enough. That’s why you see it in use more often than the nodachi.

    Nerfing everything isn’t balance, I agree. But no one is proposing nerfing everything. Nerfing the weapons that stand out in the class loadouts as the clear superior choices IS balance, however. If that is not balance, then I don’t know what is. The trick is to nerf the weapon to a point where it’s a viable alternative to the other choices. Finding that point may be difficult, but it doesn’t excuse not trying.



  • Well I play on the only 64 slot servers for Deadliest warrior. They make up pretty much all the Australian deadliest warrior servers there are no official servers. There’s 6 64 slot servers. With that many people they go for the weapons that do a lot of killing to a group of people. Even though all the maps were actually designed for 64 players which is why those servers were made 64 slot to begin with.

    I still don’t see the problem with the walking and stab animations lol. You’re obviously expecting a movement that I don’t when you play which makes it confusing for you.

    If you nerf the weapons that stand out you get the BF3 balancing problem. It takes 1 extra round to kill someone now that it did at release for each weapon on average. They nerfed all the weapons. Cos everyone was saying to nerf everything. Until they took matters into their own hands, didn’t listen to the community and balanced it properly.



  • Are you even reading, nobody is asking to nerf EVERYTHING. If the Chivalry devs just took all the weapons and reduced damage, that would be the equivalent of BF3 balancing, but that’s not balancing. Why do you have to take a horrible example of balancing and just assume that every balance attempt is going to be like that? NO. Just take the weapons that are clearly superior and nerf those to the level of the inferior ones. Simple. Do you see anyone asking to nerf the poleaxe? The regular katana? The samurai mace? Either of the two spartan swords that aren’t falcatas? The viking swords or dane axes? No. Just nerf the weapons that make those weapons obsolete and we’ll be fine.


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